Laurie James 0:07
Welcome to Confessions of a Freebird podcast. I'm your host, Laurie James, a mother, divorcee, recovering caregiver, the Author of Sandwiched: A Memoir of Holding On and Letting Go, a Therapy Junkie, Relationship Coach, Somatic Healer, and now Podcaster. I'm a free spirit and here to lift you up. On this podcast, I'll share soulful confessions, and empowering conversations with influential experts. So you can learn to spread your wings and make the most of your second half. So pop in those earbuds turn up the volume, and let's get inspired because my mission is to help you create your most joyful, purpose driven life. One confession at a time.
Laurie James 0:56
Hello, Freebirds thank you so much for tuning in today. I am very excited about my guest today, and I am truly in awe of her. Her strength and determination to help others is truly inspiring. And I think you're going to find her story inspiring as well. Andrea Sonnenberg is my guest today, and she is a Lawyer, Mental Health Advocate, and Co-Founder of Wiser Readers to Leaders at Children's Literacy nonprofit. After the loss of her son Bradley, in 2017, she began speaking on mental health issues across the country, promoting wellness curriculum, hosting the podcast, getting through and founding a wellness initiative in her son's memory at USC. I'm getting chills just reading this. As someone committed to the power of literacy and education, Andrea recently authored a set of children's books, filled with lovable characters and easy to understand explanations to shine a light on well being, and empathy. A student of Narrative Medicine at Columbia University, Andrea has learned how to use art and storytelling to improve healing. So Andrea, thank you so much for being here today. And for sharing your very personal story with us. There's truly no greater loss than the loss of a child. And I'm just truly inspired by all that you're doing in this world.
Andrea Sonnenberg 2:43
Thank you. It's my pleasure to be here. I'm just going to tell you I actually pronounce my name Andrea. I'm honored to be here. And everything I do, in memory of my son, brings joy and warms my heart. So thank you so much for inviting me to be here and to honor his memory.
Laurie James 2:57
Yes. So as we get started, you are speaking all over the country. You're writing children's books, creating a podcast and getting published in Time Magazine. On top of other things. Can you share with us how you arrived at where you are today, after the horrific trauma of losing your son?
Andrea Sonnenberg 3:22
Well, it was definitely a process, I must say. As you can imagine, as anyone can imagine the devastation from losing a child is indescribable, it's unfathomable. You sort of don't feel like you can go on. And you dig, dig deep, deep, deep inside and kind of look for the inner strength that you know is in there. You think about other people who have weathered challenges. And I think the thing that was really, really the most helpful for me, and I cannot encourage it enough for any kind of challenge anyone is encountering, is a support group. And so finding a grief group, I found three other women who had lost a child right around the time that I did. And I also think the fact that it was the losses were very timely. So we were at the similar stages in our grief was really powerful. And just knowing that someone else is experiencing what you've experienced this thing that is so horrendous that you can't imagine anybody else could understand. They do. They do.
Laurie James 4:37
So how often did you guys meet with this group?
Andrea Sonnenberg 4:40
So it's interesting. There was a woman in the community who knew of me, we kind of knew of each other, because we both had heard of these horrendous losses that we had. And she reached out to me on Facebook, and you know, you don't see the Facebook, it's like unmask Facebook Messenger and so like weeks and weeks went by and I didn't see the notice and I also was not in my right mind and kind of days. And I finally saw the little notification. And my friend said, who now is a dear, dear dear friend said, I'd love to get together with you, you know, I lost my daughter a month before you did. And I said, I wasn't leaving the house. And she said, That's okay, I'll come to you. And she came to me. And I can envision like where we sat in the room, when the chair she sat in the chair that I sat in, and we just had this instant bond. And then we had heard about two other people. So the four of us came together, and we started out by just meeting in people's homes, because we were crying all the time. And it was not comfortable to be outside in front of people. And then slowly, we were able to move to having breakfast out at a restaurant. And then we were having lunch at a restaurant. And then we were having cocktails at a restaurant. And you know, we were slowly you watched the grief, progress into different forms, like the grief is never gone, it's never gone. But it changes into ways that you can incorporate it into your life. So I would say we met every couple of weeks kind of thing. And we still meet we just met last week. And now in you know, in the beginning, we talked about our loss, and our children. And my son did this, and my son did that, and my son was wonderful, and my son was smart, and my son was funny and or my daughter was this and my daughter was that. And now it's about like what we're doing in our lives or to develop ourselves. You know, one of my friends has a new house. And that's a new stage of life for her where she moved from the childhood home. That was her childhood home, where her daughter's childhood home and moved. So now it's about that next stage, which is interesting, because you know, that sort of like what you're focusing on next stages in life, based on age, based on circumstance, based on our life experiences..
Laurie James 4:40
Experiences.
Andrea Sonnenberg 4:40
Exactly, exactly.
Laurie James 4:41
Lovely. So because I think we got a little off track, I want to go back and how did you get to a place where you're speaking about mental health issues around the country? And how did you get to the point where you started writing a children's book and creating a podcast and getting an article published in Time Magazine, tell us a little bit more about that journey for you.
Andrea Sonnenberg 7:39
So I realized that my life had to go on, I had no choice. And I had two other children, their adult children, but you know, two other children and a husband, and a family and my parents are still alive, you can imagine how painful that was for my parents to watch their child lose her child, I was really inspired by a couple books that I read, like I loved the book, Option B by Sheryl Sandberg. And it really kind of taught me that you don't always get option A and life and Option B kind of has to be good enough. And what she studied and was able to demonstrate was that we can actually have this post traumatic growth. So we have this trauma. And you can come out like, stronger and like more resilient actually after, you know, not saying that you want trauma happened because we don't, clearly but it's oftentimes when it happens, it does kind of bring out this strength in you. And people say to me, Oh, you're so strong, and I'm really not strong. But it was a way for me to deal with this grief. And to turn pain into purpose. You know, I kind of so I was able to be inspired by this book, and by there was another book that Rabbi leader wrote, I think it's more beautiful than before. And he also talks about having, you know, horrible and I think he had like really horrible back problems and back surgery and pain and pain medication addiction and issues, and was able to kind of go beyond that and become stronger. I realized that my son wasn't in my life anymore. But I wanted to do something to memorialize his life and to elevate his legacy. And in doing that, it would help me heal. So that was really why I started doing this kind of work, and that was the inspiration. And people say to me, what would Bradley think about what you're doing right now? And he was very witty and really sarcastic and like really creative and clever and cynical. And I always say that he sort of had a really hard time for his place in the world, like, he just couldn't figure out where he fit in. And I feel like now with me, he has found his place. And he and I, together, have found our purpose and like we do this work together. And I really do feel that, you know that's what inspires me, I am inspired by my Judaism. In Judaism, we say, if you save one life, you save the world. So if I can reach one person, you know, it's like if one person listens to this podcast and says, Okay, that sounds like something I've gone through, and I'm going to try that or I'm going to read that book, you know, or I'm going to try to find a group, a support group. You know, when I talk about support groups, I mean, for all areas, not just a grief support group. But, you know, it's really wonderful. I gave a talk just recently for the Jewish Federation. And they had a Q&A section at the end. And the audience really opened up like these women were really, you know, asking deep and personal questions about mental health and their kids struggling. And I felt a really incredible connection. And afterwards, one of the women came up to me and said, You know, I'm going to start a support group for women whose children are struggling with mental health issues.
Laurie James 11:20
Oh, Wow!
Andrea Sonnenberg 11:21
And they've done that. Yeah, we have a group of women that are now formed and are, you know, it's in the process of being formed, to be able to get together and share resources and share complaints and to share what happens and share yours...
Laurie James 11:37
Ideas, and there's power in that. I think there's a sense of power. So we feel like we're doing something versus to sitting back and watching this horror movie play out.
Andrea Sonnenberg 11:51
Exactly.
Laurie James 11:51
And feel helpless.
Andrea Sonnenberg 11:53
Exactly. So, you know, little by little, you say, like, how did I get to that point, you know, like, there is nature, you know, like time, you know, time heals, it just it does. And in my first year, I wasn't out on public stages talking you know...
Laurie James 12:10
You're six years out, right?
Andrea Sonnenberg 12:12
I'm six years out, I'm almost six years out. In the very, very beginning, I worked with a meditation lady. She came to me, all I did was cry. I mean, wail, like wail. And she was so incredible. She wouldn't take money from me. Like she refused to let me pay her because she just like, saw the anguish, and knew that you know, she was just doing this like service to help me. So yes, so it was a process and I wore a bracelet, like, a friend gave me a bracelet that said resilience on it, and it was on a string. And I wore this bracelet with a string for a year and I refuse to take it off. I said, like, I am not allowed to take this bracelet off for a year. And I showered in it and slept in it and worked out in it and you know, everything. And then after a year, I said, Okay, you can take the bracelet off now. And I have since given that bracelet to another friend, who just within the past six months lost a son. So I passed that on. It was definitely a process. I remember someone said to me, when it first happened, you're gonna break up into a million little pieces, and then you're gonna put yourself back together again. And I said, No, no, no. I mean, like, that's scary. Like, don't tell me that. But it was like, so true. It was so true. Like, I am such a different person. With parts that went back together. I don't even know if they match anymore. But you do break up into a million little pieces. And you do and you work to put yourself back together. And I really, really feel that the work that I do is what helped put me back together. And it's what keeps me going. And it inspires me. And I feel like I've learned a lot through raising a child with mental health struggles. I want to share it, I want to help other people. I don't want Bradley's life and his loss to have been in vain.
Laurie James 14:22
Yeah, and to just fade away. Right? And what a beautiful way to carry his memory with you and to be doing this work together with him. Like he's with you. And when you said that, I mean, I could just see it, I could feel it, I could feel the energy. So that's really beautiful. So not to minimize Bradley's life at all. But can you share more about his life and his story? And maybe a couple of fond memories you have of him?
Andrea Sonnenberg 14:56
Well, that doesn't minimize his life at all. I'm so happy to be able to talk about any thing about him and his life. Like I'd mentioned earlier, he was incredibly creative. He was a brilliant singer and actor. When he was, I don't know, seven or eight. Like I heard him singing. And he was singing that Somewhere Over the Rainbow by the Israel. Is that his name that the Hawaiian guy that sings that that the kind of Hawaiian version?
Laurie James 15:24
I don't know who that is, but I know the song. Yeah.
Andrea Sonnenberg 15:27
Well, so you'll have to Google it. It's like a really incredible rendition of Somewhere Over the Rainbow. And he was singing it. It's like to the ukulele. And I was like, Excuse me, can you sing that again? And I was like, blown away at the beauty of his voice. And so we got him involved in musical theater and acting and played the piano. And so he was very creative. And he was very funny. And he was very, very, very, very well read. And, you know, loved science fiction and dystopian novels. You know, he loved bugs and creepy things, and lizards, like now I say that, you know, like, sometimes people say, like, when they see a butterfly, it reminds them of their loved one. Like, for me, it's it's lizards. So? Yeah. And like lizards, he used to collect them. Like when he was a little boy, he would grab the lizards, like big lizards, like in Mexico or wherever we were, he'd be like, Ma, like, Ah, no, put the lizard. And they were like James one, James two, James three. They're all named James. You know, everyone. He taught himself to become this was before everyone was becoming a chaplain to be able to do weddings. He did years and years and years ago, he did that. So he could check out a book at a university, you had to be either a student at the university or a chaplain, so he got himself like a chaplaincy degree online. So he could check out this book. So you know, he was very, very intellectual, like quoted lines from movies, you know, like new all the lines to the movies, but you know, very cynical, oh, he bought a Bitcoin in about 2014. We didn't even know what it was. And he, like, took his savings. And for like, $200, he bought a Bitcoin, that, you know, at one point was worth $70,000. I'll never sell it because it's like, no, it means too much to me. So an interesting thing, as part of my healing, I actually am a singer, myself. And so that I sort of kind of understand where his musical abilities came from. He was like, 1000 times better than I ever could hope to be. But when he died, the cantor at our synagogue, she knew that I was a singer in my former life. And you know, I saved when I was younger, and who I ran out of time with kids and work and everything. And she said, why don't you come in and sing with me for healing? I did. So I would go, and I would meet with her. And we would sing. But we didn't really sing very much in the beginning, kind of like the grief group, like we talked and cried. And she would have crystals and reiki and you know, like, all these different healing modalities. And eventually, as I started healing, we started talking less and crying less and singing more. And then eventually, she said to me, Okay, time to sing. And she has since gotten me in, and now I sing at our synagogue, at the High Holidays, at Shabbat, whenever, with Bradley, in my heart, you know, and so whenever I do it, I say, you know, like, I'm singing for Bradley. And it's a way for me, to bring joy to others in memory of Bradley, and to also show others an example of resilience, you know, and an example of what we can overcome, and the challenges that we can face and how we can turn it into something powerful.
Laurie James 18:54
And can you tell our listeners too a little bit about his struggles, what he struggled with?
Andrea Sonnenberg 19:00
Yeah, yeah. So he was very difficult from the time he was young, in terms of like, really sensitive to sounds and touch and, and we used to call him Bradley "too tight" Sonnenberg because we put them in the car seat need say, Too tight, too tight! you know, when you would have to like clip in the open thing. And, you know, when he had tantrums and he had trouble like connecting with other kids. And I went to a therapist when he was about four and the therapist said, Well, it's either developmental or it's a problem. Okay, thanks! So I said, Okay, it's not I'm gonna proceed as though it's not a problem. And it's developmental. And it was just hard to be Bradley and that was also a saying that we had in our family, it's hard to be Bradley, and he ended up what they said it was just anxiety and depression. And he ended up with an eating disorder and 11 which is quite young, and especially as a male. I ended up having to be hospitalized for seven weeks in patient at 11. If you can imagine, you know, being able to to tuck your baby boy in at night, he almost drowned because he swam too far out in the water, and had to be in intensive care for days, survived that. And then that's when I kind of realized that I couldn't keep him safe. He ended up going to a therapeutic boarding school in Colorado, which actually was incredible, and taught him how to have a good relationship with food and logical consequences and to believe in himself and his academic abilities. He came home, it was almost like he was a different kid. But I thought he was cured. And I thought, Oh, we made this sacrifice, we sent our son away like he's cured. And my husband said to me, No, he's not cured, this is something he will manage the rest of his life and that's okay. That's okay. But I was like, Oh, no, no, no, no! he's cured. So that was like, part of the shame talking like that. So he actually ended up going to a mainstream high school, and really thrived in high school, starred in all the musicals, went to the prom, you know, had friends, he still struggled. And he still had anxiety, and he was still on medication and all that, but really had an incredible experience. Those were, I would say, like the best years of his life. And then because it is a chronic condition, it came back. And he had a lot of pain, unexplained pain, and a lot of horrible, horrible fatigue, and depression and anxiety. To the point where he barely graduated high school, he did and we were we were really proud of him. And he got accepted to USC Theatre School. And we really thought that that might be like a turning point. And he just couldn't, he couldn't do it. He ended up dropping out, and then went from mental health facility to mental health facility trying to find what the answer was, how we could help him. And just nothing seemed to work. Like I said earlier, it was just hard for him to find his place in the world. And he was at a group home, a sober living home, he's actually not was not an addict. In the traditional sense, I think in a way he might have been addicted to cycle, you know, psychiatric medications, because he was on a lot of them. And I don't mean addicted in the sense of like a dependency, but just the desire to like, find the right medicine, the right mix of medications, things like the perfect pill. And one night he told the people at the home, I don't feel well, they gave him some Advil, grabbed a Red Bull, he went to bed, no one checked on him, never woke up. Never woke up.
Laurie James 22:38
Oh, couldn't even imagine. I'm so sorry.
Andrea Sonnenberg 22:41
I can't even imagine when I got that phone call that night at 930. And it's ironic because we were at a at a Hanukkah party, with adults. And I remember we were driving to the party. And I remember saying to my husband, this is cool. We're off going to honk party without our kids, we're empty nesters, we're all grown up. You know, we have like this great, you know, this life that's like, apart from our kids now. And the phone call came in at 930, and I knew it wasn't good. Because there's no reason I would be getting a phone call from Bradley's life coach. Speaking, I mean, I know you're a life coach. From Bradley's life coach at 930, and I said, is everything okay? And he said, No, Bradley's gone. And I said, Oh, where he go? And he said, No, he's dead. Yeah. So yeah, piece of advice, That's like not the best way. That's the news, and that's why you always see in the TV shows like the police come to the house. And you know, it wasn't the best way. But just as an aside, The Life Coach was incredible. And so I think that the work that you're doing is so important, and I don't know what arena you're doing it in. And you might not be sort of in the Mental Health Rehab arena. But having a life coach like having someone that wasn't a therapist, because therapy's got its own place. On that's not a parent, but someone be objective, and someone that can actually give advice, you know, I find that therapists are not really there to give advice. They're there to help you reflect and make your own decisions. But a life coach can help give advice. And so the life coach was encouraging. I'm, I'm really grateful to the life coach and the close relationship that they were able to develop.
Laurie James 24:23
So thank you for that. Yeah, coaching is very different. I mean, we do put an emphasis on having our clients reflect but in a way where it's we tried to take them from where they are today to where they want to be, versus therapy typically is more reflective on the past and how maybe the past has created patterns of how they're interacting today. I mean, we do reflect back on that a little bit, but it's really okay, what are steps to move forward to your goals and to what you want to achieve and those types of things. And so thanks Thank you for that. Because I think there are some not so great life coaches out there. But there are also some really great coaches out there, that are doing really great work in the world. So we appreciate that. So Bradley passed away nearly six years ago from one mother to another, and I know we touched on some of these things. But what are your takeaways as it relates to mental health that helped you on your healing journey, because most of the listeners here are probably women, similar women, or I do have some men that listen, similar ages to our age that may have experienced this, or are experiencing this, or are worried about their kids, who have some mental health issues, because mental health, we are having a mental health crisis in our society right now.
Andrea Sonnenberg 25:54
Yeah, you know, I think like one of the most important things that we need to do, as a society is we need to learn to, like, equate mental and physical illness. And they're the same, it's just a form of illness, one might be like your arm, and one is your brain. And so if we can do that, if we can normalize it, I think that people will be more likely to get the help that they need, they'll, you know, be more likely to talk about it, there will be more research that I just think it would be like a complete ripple effect. Like, if we were able to do that, I think we're making steps towards that. But I still think we have a long way to go. We are definitely making steps towards that. You know, and it's complicated. Mental health is complicated. It's an art, as much as it is a science, you know, and it's like a lot of trial and error. But I think that's something that's really important, I think, working towards legislation, that important legislation, like I'm involved in an advocacy group up in San Francisco, and they do incredible, incredible work like lobbying government officials, mostly California officials, about important legislative proposals. And for example, two of them that we're working on now that are really, really important. One is mental health screenings. So like we're working on like trying to get mental health screenings in schools. And if we can do that, if we can, again, it goes back to the equating the medical, the mental and the physical, you take your kid for a checkup every year for physical checkup. So you need to have a mental health screening. And they're starting to do it in some, like pilot programs, in some cities, but we're working now with the legislators to try to get it on, try to get it as a bill. One of the push backs has been actually from the teachers union, who wants it, they really want it. They say we don't have the resources to help all the kids once we find that there are issues, who are worried to like, uncover all these things. But I think that's like not an excuse, like, no, sorry, we need to make the resources that is there reason it's not, it's not an excuse tonight,
Laurie James 28:15
right?
Andrea Sonnenberg 28:15
And the thing is, is like so just pretend it's not there, like....
Laurie James 28:18
Right! And then deal with the backend. It's kind of like, let's not pretend like we have diabetes, let's just treat the symptoms or the issues that come with diabetes, instead of dealing with the diabetes on the front. And let's be proactive about well.
Andrea Sonnenberg 28:35
And so you answer my question beautifully, and reminded me one thing that I really espouse, as well as preventative care. And we don't have enough preventative care, like we prevent diabetes, we do blood sugar tests, we put people on diets, we try to prevent whatever cancer. You know, by eating well, and exercising all these kind of things, we need to work on preventative measures towards mental health. And I think something that's really important in that regard, is education, and awareness. And teaching our young people at an early age, what it is, how to talk about it, what to look for, how to support a friend, or family member who might be struggling, so that we can identify it, label it, prevent it early on. And so that's what inspired me to write my children's books, because I really wanted to talk to young kids. And like make it it just goes to the essence of what I believe, make it like it's no big deal. We talk about my broken leg, my broken arm, whatever, and we talk about my anxiety. And so that's what I'm trying to do.
Laurie James 29:47
So can you share a little bit about your books? And because I love that, you know, let's normalize it. Because I have four daughters, like my kids have had struggles too and not to the extent that you've experienced but, you know, we've dealt with anxiety we deal with ADHD, like we've had struggles. And one of my daughter's stress has come out in physical ailments where I mean, she was sick for probably three-ish years and constantly taking her doctors. And, you know, fortunately, this was in high school, but to get a handle on it.
Andrea Sonnenberg 30:21
yep. And that's what Bradley had, my son had a lot of that too. And they sort of ended up just clumping it all together as anxiety and depression. But yes, it's not uncommon at all. So one is called Pandas Helping Paw. And it's basically animals, and I decided to use animals instead of people because I thought kids can relate to animals. And there actually are studies that show that kids can actually empathize and like, put themselves in the shoes of these animals more easily than a person, then I didn't have to worry about gender and ethnicity, like they're just animals. And it's basically trying to equate mental and physical illness and teaching kids to be empathetic, and how a kid can support a friend who's struggling. So that's panda. And then there's the same characters are in the second book of the set, and that's called Elephants Big Climb, and that's about anxiety. And elephant has anxiety, and he realizes that his friend's mom is a yoga teacher. So they go to yoga classes, and then they teach him a trick about breathing, breathing in, count to 10. You know, different little breathing techniques and calming techniques are both of the books have questions at the end, for discussion. And then there's also on my website, a related curriculum to both books that's downloadable for free. And the idea is to have kids read the book, discuss the questions and do the related curriculum, which was prepared by a therapist and a teacher in combination, working in conjunction together, to be able to normalize the topic, teach it, raise awareness, and make it something that it's just a part of life, it's part of our work.
Laurie James 32:03
That's beautiful. So in what age group, these books specifically for?
Andrea Sonnenberg 32:11
Their for, like age five to eight, so it's pretty young.
Laurie James 32:13
And is your goal to try and get these books into the school system, because you also have this wonderful nonprofit called Wise Readers to Leaders as well. So I love how everything is just kind of relatable and, in your wheelhouse as they say. So, yes. Is that your goal, then?
Andrea Sonnenberg 32:32
Ys! And we actually did a fundraiser, and people bought the book so that we could get it all of the students in my literacy program could get a copy of the book, and I came to the program and read the book to the kids and sign books for the kids. And so yes, it's absolutely meant for that. And for other schools, and I go to a lot of schools and do readings, and we're working really hard to get the book and curriculum. You know, it's mandated that by 2024 there has to be mental health curriculum in schools.
Laurie James 33:00
By 2024?
Andrea Sonnenberg 33:02
Yeah.
Laurie James 33:02
In California?
Andrea Sonnenberg 33:03
Uh huh.
Laurie James 33:05
Or is that a federal or just in California?
Andrea Sonnenberg 33:07
For now, it's California, we're a little more ahead of the game here. So that's my goal. And I'm really, really excited about it. And those are some of the takeaways, and I'll save my strongest takeaway for our closing.
Laurie James 33:21
Thank you. So with the holidays around the corner, what helped you get through those first one to two years after you lost Bradley?
Andrea Sonnenberg 33:34
Okay, so I lost Bradley at the holidays. So the holidays are hard for everybody, always, with a loss. I feel in a way it's like extra hard for me, because that's the anniversary of his loss.
Laurie James 33:50
Right. So that's always a reminder that..
Andrea Sonnenberg 33:53
It is, but what I done is I try to create traditions. Like I always try to do some kind of singing, in honor of his yard site. We call it in Judaism in honor of the anniversary of his death. And I can invite everybody and I can or I've done in like on a video what during COVID It was like on Zoom, or I like to do something in his memory that way around the holidays. I also like I said, I like creating new traditions. And like I was mentioning before, like this friend of mine who has a new house. There is kind of life after the loss and you're different and your life is different. So maybe you don't do things exactly the way that you do. You know, it's different. Yeah.
Laurie James 34:42
And be okay with that.
Andrea Sonnenberg 34:44
Be okay with it. Like I kind of look at my life. Now in stages. I mean, everybody's life is in stages, but for me, it's like my I had my life with Bradley. And now I have my life without Bradley and I try to make it unique and distinct. From what my life before Bradley was, and then it just, you know, I think it's really important. But for me, and I think everybody's different, but I think it's fairly universal that people, now we like to talk about our loved one that we lost. And I think like prior generations, were kind of more hush hush, the person's like..
Laurie James 35:19
Yeah, there was that stigma, like, don't talk about it.
Andrea Sonnenberg 35:21
Don't bring it up.
Laurie James 35:22
don't bring it up. Don't talk about it.
Andrea Sonnenberg 35:24
Right.
Laurie James 35:24
You'll make the person sad. You know, like, you think I'm not already sad. And then by not talking about it, you feel more alone, and more sad. And there is research around that, talks about well, and you might know more about it. And I'd love to know a little bit more what you're a student of Narrative Medicine, and what that means. But I know for me writing my book, and then talking about it, and being on podcast and sharing my story was a huge part of my healing process. And it doesn't compare to losing a child. But when you're with somebody for 26 years, and you've built this family in this life, you know, the divorce, there's a grief process that you go through. Like making meaning of it all, like, how do you make meaning of what happens? Right. And so by telling our stories, it helps, it helps us to process it helps us to make sense and it helps us to move on, and to also just connect human to human, you know that somebody else is out there and somebody else is listening, and somebody else cares. And from a grief group standpoint, somebody else gets it.
Andrea Sonnenberg 36:41
Absolutely. And I think that also, you know, doing something in memory of your loved one, at the holidays, is always a powerful like, you go and serve food at a pantry, or any work at a pantry or usher food at a shelter or something and you like doing it in memory of your loved one, I think, is a way to elevate their legacy. I think that turning pain into purpose. I mean, I think anyone that is involved in philanthropy, realizes that, you know, you're giving, but you get so much back. Like, you get so much back when you see the smiles. And when you see the gratitude, you know, when you see the impact that you're making, I think it's really moving. And I think it motivates you to knowing. And he knows a little bit of your heart, totally. You know, know that, yes, that you're making a difference in somebody else's life, even though you have lost somebody, but especially if you do it in their memory.
Laurie James 37:48
Exactly.
Andrea Sonnenberg 37:49
But you know, it's hard. You know, it's hard to get started, you know, like, I remember with Bradley, like, I would say you need to exercise to get out of being depressed, and he's like, but I'm depressed. How do I exercise? You know? So it's like that vicious cycle. So you know, I'm grief stricken? So how do I rake out, you just you have to. It's kind of like exercise, like, I don't want to exercise this morning, but I know that I'm going to feel better. Once I get started. So that those minutes where you have to like force yourself, you just know you have to know that you're going to force yourself and then you're going to feel better. And as an adult that has all had all these experiences, you realize that but like as a young person...
Laurie James 38:29
You don't.
Andrea Sonnenberg 38:30
They don't know that.
Laurie James 38:31
I don't know if you ever listened to Mel Robbins. She's a big time advocate and public speaker and has written several New York Times bestsellers, but she has this 5-4-3-2-1 Get out of bed. Right? You know, because she struggled with depression. She struggled with alcoholism. And now she's got 4 million followers on Instagram, she's got podcasts. But anyways, there's research that backs that, right. I mean, and people that have depression, they not all everybody, but that has helped some people too. And there's research to back that. So it's just doing it just like...
Andrea Sonnenberg 39:06
Your actions can change your thoughts?
Laurie James 39:08
Definitely. Totally, then that, you know, we talk about that and coaching all the time. So as we come to a close, what's one confession that you'd like to make on this topic of mental health that helps you and what's your takeaway?
Andrea Sonnenberg 39:28
So I think and I sort of alluded to it, but I will just confess openly, that it's really important to connect with other people and to share and to tell your story and to not be ashamed and not be embarrassed and not hold back. I was very private about our struggle. I was very ashamed. I didn't want to talk about it. I have since learned, what a difference it makes, Being a part of the support group, like I learned, I think like, Wow, if I had been in a support group back then like, how might things have been different, you know. So I really think that everybody is going through something, and then it might not be a mental health journey. But I will tell you that everyone is impacted everyone, there is someone in their family, there's friend, there's a neighbor, there's a co worker, like everyone is touched by it. So if you share, reach out, you will find people to connect with, and you will find people and you will learn about resources, you know, you'll learn, I didn't know about NAMI and the Didi Hirsch Center and various programs.
Laurie James 40:46
Which I'd love to have those resources to put them on the podcast, so great, you know, I'd be happy to do that. I can put those in the show notes.
Andrea Sonnenberg 40:55
Perfect. Yeah, there's a lot of ways to connect, and especially nowadays, with podcasts, and that social media, and you know, for all the negatives of social media, and there's plenty, and we didn't touch on that, have that be another conversation. And there's plenty of negatives. But you know, there are some positives, and there's a way to find community. And I've done a lot of like Instagram live interviews with different professionals and young people and people that are struggling and people that are doing different kinds of research and different kinds of programming and like people just sign on, and they find a community. And you know, like I mentioned before this support group that's been formed of moms, all because I shared my story.
Laurie James 41:37
Yeah, one story, right.
Andrea Sonnenberg 41:39
That one story. And that was kind of with my book, too, as a closing, you know, I wrote my book, and it's like, if I can help one person, then I feel like I've made a difference if I can help somebody get through, or make a decision, or whatever it is, that's right for them. And so somebody doesn't feel so alone, then I feel like I've done my job.
Laurie James 42:04
That's exactly right.
Andrea Sonnenberg 42:05
And it feels really good.
Laurie James 42:05
Yeah. Andrea, thank you so, so much for being here. I so appreciate your time, and you sharing your very personal story and journey with us. And I look forward to staying connected with you and seeing where you take this.
Andrea Sonnenberg 42:22
Aww! Thank you. It was my absolute pleasure. I'm inspired by the important work that you're doing. And I look forward to seeing where your journey takes you as well. And thank you. Thank you.
Laurie James 42:33
Yeah.
Laurie James 42:36
Thank you for listening to this episode of Confessions of a Free Bird. I'm grateful to be in your ears and hearts. If you're interested in becoming a free bird, I'd love to support you. Please check out my website at Laurieejames.com To learn how we can work together or to sign up for my newsletter. So you can receive tips on how to date and relationship differently and ultimately find more freedom and joy in your life. If you found this podcast helpful, please follow or subscribe rate and review and share it with friends so they can find more freedom in their second or third act also. Until next time