How Equus Coaching Enhances Self-Awareness and Personal Growth with Sue Willoughby

How can non-verbal communication with a horse help you develop self-awareness on your path to personal growth?

In today's episode, Sue Willoughby, founder of Willoughby Coaching, and I dive deep into how our relationship with horses can help us become more aware of the non-verbal communication between two beings. Sue specializes in Equus coaching, a method that involves working with horses to enhance self-awareness and learn leadership skills. 

This episode is packed with insights and practical advice for anyone looking to step out of their comfort zone for personal development.

Here's what you'll learn in this episode:

• How Equus coaching can help you become more aware of how you show up and help you develop deeper self-awareness.
• How mindfulness practices and somatic experiencing can help you stay present and in tune with your body.
• How coaching with horses can improve your leadership qualities and skills so you can take the steps to create the life you desire. 
• How embracing discomfort has helped Sue achieve personal growth and it can help you too!
• The difference between a growth mindset vs a fixed mindset and how it helped her become the person she is today. 

• Actionable steps you can incorporate into your daily routine to foster mindfulness.

Join us for our in-depth conversation that will leave you feeling inspired and empowered to take charge of your life. 

Stay free and fabulous,

Laurie

These guides will help you take the next step in life and check out my upcoming retreat. 

Click here to learn about my Women’s Mammoth Retreat. 

Click here for my “Somatic Healing for Beginners Guide”

Click here for my “Girlfriends Guide to Online Dating”

Click here for my “Girlfriends Guide to Dating Differently”

Click here to purchase my book: Sandwiched: A Memoir of Holding On and Letting Go

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Website

Connect with Sue:

IG: @sue_willoughby 

Website: https://www.willoughbycoaching.com/

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DISCLAIMER: THE COMMENTARY AND OPINIONS AVAILABLE ON THIS PODCAST ARE FOR INFORMATIONAL AND ENTERTAINMENT PURPOSES ONLY AND NOT FOR THE PURPOSE OF PROVIDING LEGAL, MEDICAL OR PROFESSIONAL ADVICE. YOU SHOULD CONTACT A LICENSED THERAPIST IF YOU ARE EXPERIENCING SUICIDAL THOUGHTS. YOU SHOULD CONTACT AN ATTORNEY IN YOUR STATE TO OBTAIN LEGAL ADVICE. YOU SHOULD CONTACT A LICENSED MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL WITH RESPECT TO ANY MEDICAL ISSUE OR PROBLEM.

Transcript

Laurie James  
Hey there Freebirds don't forget to check out my Mammoth retreat that's coming up September 12 through the 16th. I do have a few spots left and would love to have you join me if it speaks to you. You can learn more about this by clicking the link in the show notes. And enjoy this conversation about how Equus coaching can help you discover the profound impact of nonverbal communication and self awareness when we engage with horses. 

Laurie James  
Welcome to Confessions of a Freebird podcast. I'm your host, Laurie James, a mother, divorcee, a recovering caregiver, the author of Sandwiched A Memoir of Holding on and Letting go, a therapy junkie, relationship coach, somatic healer, and now podcaster. I'm a free spirit and here to lift you up on this podcast all share soulful confessions, and empowering conversations with influential experts. So you can learn to spread your wings and make the most of your second half. So pop in those earbuds turn up the volume. And let's get inspired because my mission is to help you create your most joyful, purpose driven life. One confession at a time. 

Laurie James  
Hey there Freebirds I am thrilled to have my guests on today and you are in for a treat. Today, you are going to hear a conversation with Sue Willoughby and myself. Sue is the founder of Willoughby coaching, where women over 40 confront their personal obstacles and change the trajectory of their lives with the power of Equus coaching. Equus coaching helps you discover the profound impact of non verbal communication and self awareness as we engage with horses, gaining insights into our leadership communication style and personal growth. Sue was raised by a single alcoholic parent, I'm so sorry. She struggled with low self esteem and learned from an early age to be self sufficient and embrace discomfort. She came out at age of 17 and struggled to find her place in the gay community. Attempted suicide at 19 and was on a path of living hard and playing harder. Sue found coaching through her lifelong love of horses. They were always there to support her through the darkest of her times. And I am so excited to dive into this conversation. So welcome, Sue. And thank you so much for being here.

Sue Willoughby  
Well, thank you for having me, Laurie, it's a pleasure to be part of your show. Thank you.

Laurie James  
Thank you. And I have to confess I'm a huge animal lover. And I think we can learn so much from animals. And Equus coaching is also very connected to somatic experiencing. So let us just dive into this conversation. Can you tell our listeners a little bit more about what Equus coaching is? 

Sue Willoughby  
Absolutely. Yeah, good question. People say, 'Well, do you coach the horses? Or do you coach people? Or what do you do, exactly?' I work with horses as my coaching partners. So horse behavior, they are very expressive, and they don't lie. They don't judge when you're in the presence of a horse. They are totally reading what's going on inside of you. So you talked about somatic experience. That's what makes it so powerful. We all have sort of a facade that we faced the world with. And horses can see right through that, like with a laser beam, like no girl. 

Laurie James  
Yeah. And they can feel our energy, right?

Sue Willoughby  
Oh, absolutely. Our heart rate our breathing. So if we're trying to put up a front with them, but back to your question, when my clients are in the arena, or the round pen with a horse, I'm watching the behavior of the horse as I'm interacting with my client. And they may be saying one thing and trying to put up a certain persona and the horse is on the other side of the arena going 'no'. So I'm watching the horses behavior because they're so into their bodies might also an equine massage therapist. So I got really good at holding energy space for horses when I was working on them, learning to read the very fine horse behavioral signs that they were giving me when I was working on them as well. So they basically act as a mirror and a feedback loop for me as a coach. And that allows me to ask really spot on questions to get some because of what I'm seeing from the horse.

Laurie James  
Right. And so then you take that information that you are witnessing from the horse, and how do you relay that back then to your clients.

Sue Willoughby  
So as I'm watching the horses behavior, and I listen to what the client is telling me, typically I will ask them always for an intention of the session. So before they go in to work with the horse, we have a conversation. What would you like to work on today? How can we support you? And it's funny, because a lot of times, their initial intention will evolve. And we end up working on something completely different based on what the feedback is I'm getting from the horse. 

Laurie James  
Yeah, right. There's interesting, probably something a layer underneath, right?

Sue Willoughby  
Layers and layers and layers. It's peeling them back one at a time.

Laurie James  
Yeah. It's just like an onion. And it's okay. 'When do we get to the core?' 

Sue Willoughby  
And it can shift. And it's just so fun. Because with talk coaching, or talk therapy, people can tell you whatever they want. And you can tell by their body language, and whatever, if you're in the room with them, or if you have them on a zoom call or a zoom session, because I do coaching offline as well, or online, I should say. But with a horse there, you can't get around it. They're giving you some really honest feedback, and whatever it is that you're having inside, right, so whatever's inside is what they see and what they react.

Laurie James  
The fear and how your nervous system is responding to the animal. 

Sue Willoughby  
Absolutely. Absolutely. 

Laurie James  
Right. And so typically, that something unresolved, either a fear of doing something different, a fear of the animal itself. There's always there's so much information there. I love that. So what was the turning point in your life that made you realize the power of engaging with horses for your own development?

Sue Willoughby  
Yeah, that's a great question, Laurie. Oh, God, I've had so many turning points. And I just when I look back, I can say, oh, yeah, there was a horse there for that, oh, there was a horse there for that. There was a horse there for that. I've also worked as a volunteer, and many summers I spent doing therapeutic riding with before it was even therapeutic riding, I was like 19 years old. And you could see the effect that the horses had on people with disabilities, and whether they were riding or just in their presence. And then I volunteered with an organization here in Washington to do therapeutic riding from the horse handler perspective. And then also just my own personal experience, I went through a really bad breakup with someone and this horse was in my life started sending me oh, there's a free horse for you. There's no such thing as a free horse, by the way to view horses. They are very expensive animals. But they're really good therapy. So this little horse needed me as much as I needed her. She was in a stressful situation. She had been misunderstood all of her life. And I knew she wasn't my forever horse. But there was a reason that she came into my life. When she did. And it was really interesting. She was a little gray, Arab. And with the darker gray skin underneath some gray horses or pinkish underneath just for people that don't know horses, and she had like deep pigmentation around her mouth and around her eyes, sort of like that vitiligo and something that's weird. And after she'd been with me about six months or so, and I moved her to a different barn, it started to go away until it completely went away. It was totally stress related, which was really interesting. Yeah. 

Laurie James  
Wow. That just goes to show you even animals feel stress, and it shows up in their bodies. 

Sue Willoughby  
Yeah. 

Laurie James  
Yeah. That's amazing. So how can animals help us develop our intuitive wisdom more?

Sue Willoughby  
Well, I would say for example, horses, we all talk about mindfulness and mindfulness that but and I think the word gets overused a little bit to the point where people are like, 'What about mindfulness?' If you put it in the context of awareness, I think is a really good way to describe it. And when you work with horses, people have to remember or learn that they are prey animals. Now, they may be 1200 pounds, but they're still prey to somebody, right? Whether it's a cat or whether it's something else, or whether it's a human, we're predators, right. Our eyes are in the front of our heads, whereas horse's eyes are more on the sides of their heads. So they have that bigger field of vision. Their one goal is to stay alive, and they want to know is that person, is that thing, is that noise, is that going to hurt me. So their level of awareness is so intense that being around them, you start to develop that same level of awareness. What is the horse doing, oh, they've got like an ear turned this way, their eye is this way, or they're like getting and chewing, they're being softer. So that was one thing that helped me become more mindful and more aware of my own behavior. And just learning to take that moment, take that beat. Before you react and before you do that thing, before you say something that you're going to regret. Take a minute and just sit in it and get in your body.

Laurie James  
Yeah, and again, talked about the senses too and using your senses. Because my words not yours, but in tune with that horse. And to develop and build that relationship with that horse, or dog or whatever animal, you need to really watch all of their different reactions, the ears, are they mad is their heart, racing more like all of that. And that's what somatic. It's about awareness at the very top of it is developing more awareness about the world around us, and developing the awareness of our own bodies and how we're acting and reacting to situations. And that could be based off of traumatic experiences we've had in the past, but the horse is going to react that way too. So it's, tell me if you disagree, but it's about building that relationship. And as we're talking and you shared that, I'm also thinking about the relationship I have with my dog because I adopted my dog, the beginning of COVID, she had so much trauma, she was abused, and she's It's beautiful 75 pound husky, like her personality has come out. And you could just see the relationship. I noticed the relationship I built with her over time, when I can tell her something and she listens and a lot of Huskies don't listen, right. So yeah, and she trusts me. And so that's the key is to tell me if I have got this off and building that relationship and building that trust with that horse.

Sue Willoughby  
Absolutely. Yeah, you nailed it spot on, I have the same kind of relationship with my little rescue Dawson's their training, but one has really bad anxiety issues, and he's come around, he's still very much my little shadow. But with the horses, yeah, you can build that awareness much quicker, and then be able to take that away with you when you leave the interaction with the horse. And a lot of times, I may start a session with a five senses meditation, where it's five things that you see and four things that you hear and what do you smell, just get people in their bodies. And then when something comes up, and very quickly, a motion will come up when people are with horses. And a lot of it, I think is just their energy. And just the fact that people feel supported by being in proximity with a horse. So emotions will come up. And I'll ask people to sit with them, right, which probably-

Laurie James  
Most people are uncomfortable doing. 

Sue Willoughby  
Oh, right. They're just like, oh, no, I'm good. I'll just move on. But I'll ask them to sit with them and ask them where that is presenting inside where it is in their body and really make them go in, you gotta go in before you can go out. And so it takes people a minute to because it's uncomfortable, right? And the body does store like you said, like the example with my horse, it manifested in the pigmentation of her skin that was so bad. The trauma and everything that we've been through sits inside and bubbles to the surface. So you have to figure out where does it originate? What is that little sign that I get when I'm in an uncomfortable situation or confronted with something? Right?

Laurie James  
So in your opinion, though, why is it important to build that awareness based off of your own personal experience and the individuals that you work with? Why is it important for us to build that awareness around our physical senses? What does it help us do?

Sue Willoughby  
For me personally, I had a lot of anger and a lot of frustration, because of the way I grew up and I was just like, put up a big hard shell. So I was just a shell with my armor, and nothing's gonna penetrate me and I'm good. I can take care of myself and I don't need anybody. Anybody, right? But so you go through life with this either you've got this big armor right here. They're like an armadillo is kind of or you're a turtle and you tuck in or whatever. But when you can actually give yourself permission to feel those things. You think you're protecting others from or you're protecting yourself from those things coming into you. Now, when I do work with clients and or horses when I was doing massage, I have my own energy bubble in a positive way. I've left a barn or I've left a situation with a horse. And I'm like, who I really feel oh, but it's because I didn't cleanse my energy field. So I'm still that horses still taking, sucking whatever it was from me and people can be very much energy vampires.

Laurie James  
Oh, totally. Absolutely. People can suck our energy out. Yeah, yes, definitely. You really have to be careful that so animals can do that to them?

Sue Willoughby  
In a different way that, okay, they can but if the dog or the horse or the whatever, has suffered some trauma, and they feel that connection with you, they may just be getting support. Right? That's not a bad thing. But you do have to protect yourself. 

Laurie James  
That's interesting. I wouldn't hsve made that connection. That's really interesting. So what are the most important leadership qualities that people can discover through nonverbal communication with horses?

Sue Willoughby  
That is an excellent question. Once again, we go back to horses in their nature, they are herd animals, and I mentioned that they are prey animals, when they're in a herd, they are going to look to not the biggest and the strongest and the most masculine stallion, right? That's gonna be like, I'm gonna protect you. They look to the calmest, most mindful-

Laurie James  
Yeah, or maybe safe? Is that a good word? Or- 

Sue Willoughby  
They look at a calmness leader. And typically, it's in the herd, you think that the males are going to be the herd leaders? They're not. It's usually the females. It's a mare. Because she's thoughtful, she will take care of her herd. And that maternal instinct. I don't have children. I never did have that maternal instinct. But it's my marriage. 

Laurie James  
I made up for you. 

Sue Willoughby  
For you, thank you. I knew I was too selfish. I was like, No, I can't have kids, I can barely take care of myself. Anyway, back to your question. It's funny to watch how people their initial interaction with horses a lot of times, and I'm not making a generalization, it's pure observation. But men will go in and they'll be like, I can this just this horse, I can pick up its foot or I can do this thing, or I want it to move around. And horses. Really? Yeah. Go ahead. Knock yourself out. They're not impressed, Brett, by bravado, they're impressed by someone who is congruent, I will say. So being around horses as just a horse person, right? Bride or whatever. The horse is looking to you for guidance. And if you don't give it to them, and if you don't defend your boundaries, and I'm not saying that they're going to attack you, but you have to say, hey, no, I'm sorry. This is my space. This is my space. And they're like, Okay, great, thank you. I just didn't know where my space ended and yours began.

Laurie James  
Wow, just that natural ability to teach a boundary.

Sue Willoughby  
Yeah, they're looking to you for leadership, they're not leaders. If you leave them to their own devices, they will walk all over you. And that's a lot of walking, walking or bounce can leave a mark. Because when you're in a situation with a horse, let's say if you're riding on a trail or whatever, and something jumps out of the bushes, or a plastic bag is caught in a tree, right? Their instinct is to bolt, their instinct is to get away from that scary thing so that they don't die. Now, it may just be a plastic bag, and you're like, idiot, that plastic bag has been there for the past three rides, and you've never freaked out about it before. But maybe the light is hitting it differently. Maybe it was a breathe it, whatever it is. So you want your horse to look to you as the rock, as the leader, and that they would have that communication and that connection with you. So that they're not going to just freak out and wipe you out. 

Laurie James  
So they can look at you get the clue from you. You're from a calm place, and then trust that you're going to lead them around that bag or away from whatever it is that might be scaring them at the moment. 

Sue Willoughby  
Exactly. So that's why leadership skills can be easily developed with horses, because they'll tell you when you're not being a good leader. 

Laurie James  
Yeah, yes. And that can be hard because not everybody is a natural leader. 

Sue Willoughby  
But they can still build those leadership skills without actually, they don't need to be a CEO or even have a desire to be a CEO. Right, but they can still develop leadership skills and confidence and awareness and we are back to that awareness again, with themselves. 

Laurie James  
Yeah, and that's where it all begins. Right? Oh, If awareness of everything. So you're a big advocate of stepping outside your comfort zone, can you share with our listeners some of the ways that you've done this, and then why it's important for us to do so.

Sue Willoughby  
I think the when you did my bio at the beginning, growing up in a situation with an alcoholic parent, I became really self sufficient, somewhat to my detriment, but discomfort became my comfort zone, right. I never knew what I was going to walk into when I got home. I never knew what to expect what kind of behavior to deal with. So I was always, I was always in fight or flight mode. So I got really good at and then also just being with horses, not knowing what to expect if they're unpredictable. And let's face it, like I said, they will mirror whatever is going on with you. So I just got in the habit of I guess, just doing whatever I wanted to do. When I was a little, like I said, self sufficient. But I would just get on a motorcycle and go ripping around or whatever it was. I've done skydiving, someone, DJ, bartender, and that was part of the bartending and the DJing thing was a little self serving in that when I first came out, I was like, how am I gonna meet people? Well, I'll just go work at a bar, I'll be a DJ, and I was like, Oh, the DJs are cool. I'm gonna be one of those. So those in the DJ booth, and then like, people are gonna come to me, and I'm also got this little barrier around me, right, so I feel safe. I would say if I can scan the dance floor, I could do whatever I want. Same thing when you're bartending, right, you've got a barrier to you, but you can't get me. I don't want you to. Yeah. So yeah, all of that stuff. But I just always done what I wanted to do when I wanted to do it. Because I don't want to have a bucket list. And I didn't even think about it that way. It's just like, someone gave me a an introductory flight lesson. And I ended up taking flight lessons and then buying a plane. And like I said, I don't do anything small. I just dive right in. 

Laurie James  
Go big or go home, right? 

Sue Willoughby  
Exactly. Why not? Why not? I was in an Instructional Designer for that was my career I stumbled into, or only over 25 years, and I worked at a big aircraft manufacturer who shall remain nameless, but I figured out Yeah, and there are people there that were like in their 70s. And they're still there and they're working, and then they retire and then they die. And I like oh my god, that's not I can't do that. And that was part of my- 

Laurie James  
You saw your projectory and you're like, I was gonna want that.

Sue Willoughby  
That was never me. I was never a corporate person. I did it because I got paid really well.

Laurie James  
It's a means to an end. 

Sue Willoughby  
Yeah. And honestly, Laurie, I never even thought I would have a six figure job. I barely had a five figure job when I was younger. And I'm like, oh, never gonna amount to anything or whatever. But yeah, yeah, yeah. And I kind of had a big case of imposter syndrome for a long time, like, who am I to have this job? And who am I to make this kind of money? And so, yeah, like I said- 

Laurie James  
Look where it's led you. 

Sue Willoughby  
Yeah, I quit high school twice, by the way. And now I'm a lifelong learner. I can't take in enough things now that sometimes can end up being pretty shiny thing syndrome. But-

Laurie James  
But still, it's I think, mindset and getting out of your comfort zone is so important for us, because I was comfortable for 26 years in America and sometimes comfortable, sometimes very comfortable. But that fear of stepping out of your comfort zone, it can be hard. But what I always say is, if I can get divorced, I can do anything. And I'm pretty adventurous person I love to ski. I have gone hella skiing, I love to hike. I've done a lot of different things. I have a very adventurous side to me. And there are times and tell me if you have this too. There's some times I'm like, I need to just be comfortable for- and whatever I'm doing. And then I get the edge. And I'm like, Okay, time to scratch my edge. What can I do? So one thing that I'm thinking about doing, which I haven't decided, so this is the first time I'm sharing this with anybody, as I have a big birthday coming up in November. So I'm thinking about doing 60 Different things for 60 weeks, so like maybe the 30 weeks before my birthday, because it's at the end of the year, and then 30 Things like once a week and they don't have to be big. But maybe even trying a different coffee shop this week. Right? Yeah. Or maybe doing bigger things like, I don't think Skydiving is in my future. That's one thing never know. That's one thing that freaks me out. But I don't know and just to be able to continue to grow and learn because I think it's a wonderful way for us to learn about ourselves and about the world around us, and to learn about other cultures. And I think that there's so much richness in that. And I get like some people, they need the routine, and I need my routine to some extent. But it's like, I'm on the back nine right now. You think you are too.

Sue Willoughby  
I'm with you. I'm going to be 65 in September, and I'm like, Oh, how did that happen?

Laurie James  
Yes, exactly. So I love that. But do you have anything to add? Like, why do you think it's important for us to step out of our comfort zone and do different things? 

Sue Willoughby  
Yeah. Laurie, I think all of those things that you said, and having that kind of goal of doing 60 things to celebrate your milestone, and even if they're little things, like you said, go to a new coffee shop, go to a nice restaurant and have dinner by yourself. Yeah, that's a good one. Yeah, I don't even want to have fast food by themselves. It's just, you know, oh my god, if I'm in this place by myself, people are gonna think I don't have any friends.

Laurie James  
That's an issue. I'm gonna put that on my list. Because Are you gonna think that I haven't. I've only done that a couple times in my life. Because-

Sue Willoughby  
Party of one. Party, those words freak people out. Party, you have one, your table is ready. And you're like, Oh, my God.

Laurie James  
Loser. 

Sue Willoughby  
Loser party of one, your tables right here in the center of the restaurant? Will you sit down? We'll be right with you. It's really, it's okay. But yeah. So no, I think that's great. And I tell people all the time, you know, to get out of here, and I tend to call it the comfort bunker, because sometimes it's more than his own. It is like you're in there. But there are things that we all want to do or want to experience like having a nice meal by herself. Maybe that's not at the top of everybody's list, but there's something and it can seem so far away. And so attainable. It's like when you're headed towards the horizon, you never get there. But there's so many little things that you can experience on the way. And with my coaching, it's never may have a big goal. Great, but let's break it down into little tiny, attainable steps. hurtled steps toward ish steps, whatever you want to call them, that you can do and celebrate. I always tell people celebrate those little things. Like I took a different route home from work today. I parked out in the far part of the parking lot. Yeah, you didn't park right? Look for the closest spot to the door. Or, you know what I was on a drive. And I didn't have my foot to the floor the entire time. I saw something I pulled over. I stopped I got out of the car.

Laurie James  
Stop and explore. Yeah, another way the journey. I mean, what I'm hearing you say is enjoy the journey. It's not just get to my destination. So I can be happy. 

Sue Willoughby  
What is happy, right? 

Laurie James  
Right. But I'm guilty of that. I kept it for much of my life. And I don't know about you, maybe you're different. But I kept thinking, well, if I get here to point B, then I'll be happy. And then I'd get that little, I'm still not that happy. And then when we get to point C and then get to I met Z and okay, at that point, it's like, Okay, I think I need to look inward, like why am I not? What are the messages, I'm telling myself what's going on in my nervous system, what needs to be healed? So that way I can enjoy today, I can enjoy this incredible conversation that I'm having with you. I can go walk my dog after this or whatever it is that we all have on our- and just stop and enjoy the moment.

Sue Willoughby  
Right. Also, on that note, stop and enjoy the moment and put this thing down. Yeah, you don't have to holding a cell phone for those listening. Oh, yeah, sorry. I've got my cell phone up. Put the darn thing down and experience where you are and what is around you. Take a deep breath. What is the air smell? What does it feel like? Take off your shoes and stand in the grass for God's sakes? In the dirt in the financing or wherever you are? Like, like you said, What does it feel like? What am I missing? I'm missing a lot because I'm always looking at my phone. I'm trying to post the best thing on Instagram. I'm trying to do this and I think people miss a lot of experience because of that as well. So that's another challenge. 

Laurie James  
And I'm guilty of that too. 

Sue Willoughby  
Me too. Are you gonna post something for Instagram? 

Laurie James  
Yeah, or just I spent a lot of my life just chasing that elusive happiness. It's just okay. The happiness is in the moment that happiness is really sitting down and being present. And again going back to what you said it all starts with that awareness of like, okay, why am I not present? Why am I in fight, flight or freeze and why? And how can I bring it back to the present? Okay, maybe I just need to feel the chair underneath me and the feet on the ground or in the grass or in the sand and just enjoy that. Stop and smell the rose when you're walking. 

Sue Willoughby  
Absolutely. Reach out in touch the foliage as you're going through a hike through the woods. Don't just try and get your steps in looking at your watch. Like, I got 50,000 more steps to get today. 

Laurie James  
Yeah, it's funny because my boyfriend keeps wanting to buy me an Apple watch. Oh, uh huh. Yeah. And I was like, I don't want an Apple Watch. And he's like, Well, you know, then like, you can know how many steps I'm like, my phone tells me how many steps if I want to know. But also it's I want to listen to my body and ask my body what it needs. I don't want a watch or something electronic telling me what I need, and what I want. And I think that's where there's a big misstep. It's like, let's get back to nature. Let's get back to being more like animal. And really being in tune with our own awareness, our own nervous systems, our sensory, our five senses, nature, it's very healing.

Sue Willoughby  
And I wanted to go back to a point that you talked about pursuing happiness, right? What if I get to this point, I'll be happy. Oh, okay. Well, now I'm here. And but I'm not happy. That is a lot of the same thought process that keeps people in their comfort zone, right? Where I can go do that thing once I have this in this in place, right? And then those things never get in place. But there there is like this crutch or this, okay, I can't go pursue this thing until I have X amount of money. Or I can't do this other thing until the kids are out of the house or whatever it is. And then, okay, the kids are gone. What's your excuse? 

Laurie James  
Right. They'll find another excuse typically, until they really are willing to take a look at it and address okay, what's really going on inside me? And what's underneath it? Is it trauma, is it just basic fear, is it uncertainty? What is it that's really going on? 

Sue Willoughby  
Exactly. 

Laurie James  
So can you tell our listeners a little bit more about your companions and how they've enriched your life and your work?

Sue Willoughby  
Oh, my little dachshunds, I've had dachshunds when- 

Laurie James  
your MVW bus? 

Sue Willoughby  
Arlo. Yeah, I had him out today. 

Laurie James  
Is that a Westphalia. 

Sue Willoughby  
Yes, yeah, his name is Arlo. He is great fun, and like driving him around, especially because A, you can't go very fast. So you're gonna get a ticket. And then you can just pull over open the side door and hang out if you want to. And plus everybody, he puts a smile on everybody's face. People are like, look, look. So it's just, it's kind of a really just a good vibe, driving him around. Yeah. And I get that same vibe from my animals. I had dachshunds pretty much my entire adult life. At one time I had four I was oh, wow, I had a partner. So there wasn't totally the crazy dog lady, but my current two are both rescue dachshunds. And they're my first long haired dachshunds sons and their names aren't any and Buddy. One is just a happy, crazy little guy. He does have some anxiety issues, but not as much as the other one. The other one is those dachshund eyes where they like, oh, woe is me. But they're just I just Well, you know, you have a dog. You can leave the house for a half a second and come back and they're like, Oh, my God, it's you. We love you so much. Where were you? And just there's snuggles and we have our little morning routine. They sleep in a crate at night because even though I have a king sized bed, they're stuck to me like glue. And I'm like, No, that's not happening. Right? Oh, in the morning, we get up. We have breakfast, they have breakfast, I make coffee. And then we all go back to bed and they get to have some snuggle time while I'm journaling and doing my meditation. And so it's a very cozy way to start the day. I love that. And then there's the big guy. Moose is a is 16 Hand meaning he's pretty tall. So a hand is four inches. He's a 16 hand Quarter Horse and he's Bay color. So he's brown with dark legs and dark mane and tail. He's quite a handsome fellow and he has his own little Monday moose minute on my Instagram. So hey, I'm gonna have to get some advice. Every Monday. Yeah. Yeah, he's got his Monday mousse minute.

Laurie James  
Okay, I'll have to go check out the week. We're recording this the Wednesday after Memorial Day did you post well? And for Monday, it

Sue Willoughby  
Monday was just sort of a it was a steal. It wasn't his actual books.

Laurie James  
I'll wait for the ad. But I'll go back and look at your advice. I love that. That's cute. Very cute. And as we come to a close See, what's one confession that you'd like to share with our listeners that we haven't discussed or talked about? 

Sue Willoughby  
Good? Yeah, I knew you were gonna ask this, I've been really giving it a good deal of thought. And I think, for me, I don't know if it's a confession or not, but in general, realizing when things no longer serve you, and being able to let go of them. And I have done so much work and letting go of various things and people and it can be a person, it can be a relationship, it could be whatever. And then about habit, a habit about two and a half years ago, I decided to quit drinking. And I inherited that gene from my mom, or whatever. I don't know if it's inherited. But it's behavior that definitely it was something that served me or I thought served me for a long period of time, because I felt like I was more popular, right? Or people were hanging out with me when I was younger, and that was cool. And then it just not cool anymore. And so I'm like, I'm too old for this shit. Honestly, it's just not serving me anymore. And because of all the work that I have done on myself, it was something that I was like, Okay, I'm ready to release this. And not an AAA type person. I think that definitely fits a lot of people. For me, I didn't need it, I had found another mutual support. And I tell you, it was one of the best decisions I ever made so

Laurie James  
Wow, I love that. 

Sue Willoughby  
Thank you. 

Laurie James  
And I actually have a podcast that dropped may 30, on alcohol. And I talked to a friend and somatic Haute, she's in the same training as me. And she has a whole program on that. So for you listeners, if you haven't listened to that, go ahead and go back and listen to that. It's great insight. And one of the things that we talk about on that podcast is we talk about how alcohol affects us as we age. And one of the interesting things I'll just note here about it is, as we age, our cells hold less water. And so alcohol is dehydrating. So it affects us even more. And one of the side effects that I had was headaches, I was getting these major headaches that were lasting like two and three days from alcohol. So I've definitely changed my relationship with alcohol, especially over the last year or two, when I still like to have a drink here and there. I haven't completely cut it out. But I'm definitely not drinking like I used to for sure. Not that I was a huge drinker, like I would really look forward like I wouldn't drink during the week. And then I really look forward to my drink. And now I'm like, I don't know, I don't even have that desire as much anymore. So thank you for sharing that. And because there's a lot of stigma around not drinking.

Sue Willoughby  
Oh, absolutely. I heard a TED talk or something one time where somebody was saying you quit smoking people are like good for you. That's awesome. And we tell people you quit drinking. They're like, did you have a problem? What's wrong? Like? Yeah, did you didn't notice? Because I certainly did. But yeah, it's just there is a big stigma attached to it. And it's such a part of our culture moreso than smoking, even where, hey, let's go grab a drink. Let's go what do whatever. And the thing is, I think a lot of times for people it is a very social thing and a thing I got I'm gonna be like a social pariah now, because no one will want to hang out with me if I'm not drinking, which is not the case. And there's just as much fun without drinking. More actually. And guess what? You remember things. 

Laurie James  
But then you don't feel so crappy the next day. 

Sue Willoughby  
Right? Exactly.

Laurie James  
So where can people find you, Sue? To learn more about your coaching and follow you on Instagram? 

Sue Willoughby  
Yeah, absolutely. On Instagram, it's at Sue underscore Willoughby or you can find me on Willoughby Coaching. That's my last name, Willoughbycoaching.com. And I'm gonna send you a link if you'd like to send I have a cute little not cute. It's a little workbook. It's like a 30 day program for how to get out of your comfort zone and how to embrace discomfort and-

Laurie James  
Love that. I'll have all those links in the show notes for everybody. So thank you so much for taking time out of your day to be with me today. I so enjoyed our conversation and know our listeners did too. 

Sue Willoughby  
My pleasure. Thank you so much for having me. 

Laurie James  
Yeah.

Laurie James  
Thank you for listening to this episode of Confessions of a Freebird. I'm grateful to be in your ears and hearts. If you're interested in becoming a freebird, I love to support you. Please check out my website at Laurieejames.com to learn how we can work together or to sign up for my newsletter, so you can receive tips on how to date and relationship differently and ultimately find more freedom and joy in your life. If you found this podcast helpful, please follow or subscribe and rate and review and share it with friends so they can find more freedom in their second or third act also. Until next time.