Embrace Solo Living! A Fresh Perspective on Singlehood in Midlife with Dr. Peter McGraw

Do you have fear of being single or dare I say it alone? Maybe you are single and feeling the societal pressures from friends to partner up or you feel a NEED to do so for financial reasons.

Well…this week my guest and I will flip the stigma around living life as a solo life.

And if you haven’t noticed, more and more people are choosing this path!

Tune into my lively chat with Dr. Peter McGraw, a bachelor, behavior economist, and business school professor at UC Boulder and host of the podcast Solo-The Single Person’s Guide to a Remarkable Life. Peter’s insights into living a fulfilling single life and solo lifestyle are enlightening and deeply empowering for anyone single or not. a

Here’s what you’ll learn:

• Peter’s “ahh moment' and how that led to his Solo movement.
• What it means to be solo. And no, it’s nothing to be ashamed of. 
• The 3 defining traits of living solo and how to reinvent yourself from single to solo.
• Challenging societal norms about traditional relationships and happiness can lead to a more fulfilling life.
• Peter’s personal growth in embracing solo life and how it led to his happiness, offers a powerful example of self-realization.
• The components of Peter’s foundation flourish model.
• How to go from single to solo without becoming isolated. (Hint: you don’t have to give up anything you don’t want to.) 
• His best tips on how to manage everyday aspects of solo living.  
• And wait for his confession at the end. It’s the most valuable tip of our conversation!

Grab those earbuds because it doesn’t matter if you are in a relationship, single, or somewhere in between, there's something in this conversation that can help you live more authentically and joyfully. 

Fly Free Freebirds,

Laurie

These guides will help you take the next step in life. 

Click here to sign up for my FREE “Intro to Somatic Healing” Class on Wednesday, April 28th at 4 pm.

Click here to learn about my upcoming “Somatic Healing” class, Recover.

Click here for my “Somatic Healing for Beginners Guide”

Click here to purchase my book: Sandwiched: A Memoir of Holding On and Letting Go

Sign up for my newsletter here to stay current on my upcoming offerings and podcast interviews!

Website

Connect with Peter:

Website: https://petermcgraw.org/solo/

IG: https://www.instagram.com/petermcgraw

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com

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DISCLAIMER: THE COMMENTARY AND OPINIONS AVAILABLE ON THIS PODCAST ARE FOR INFORMATIONAL AND ENTERTAINMENT PURPOSES ONLY AND NOT FOR THE PURPOSE OF PROVIDING LEGAL, MEDICAL OR PROFESSIONAL ADVICE. YOU SHOULD CONTACT A LICENSED THERAPIST IF YOU ARE EXPERIENCING SUICIDAL THOUGHTS. YOU SHOULD CONTACT AN ATTORNEY IN YOUR STATE TO OBTAIN LEGAL ADVICE. YOU SHOULD CONTACT A LICENSED MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL WITH RESPECT TO ANY MEDICAL ISSUE OR PROBLEM.

Transcript

Laurie James  

Hey, there. It's Laurie. And before we get started on today's show, I wanted to let you know that I am offering a free intro to Somatic Healing class on Wednesday, August 28 at 4pm Pacific time. This will be an hour class, and it's a wonderful opportunity for you to understand what somatic healing is, and there will be an opportunity for you to learn a couple very simple practices, and there'll be time for Q and A this is all ahead of a monthly class that I will be offering starting September 4, so I hope you'll join me. And you know, I talk a lot about divorcing differently, healing differently and dating differently on this podcast, but today's guest is going to flip all of that on its head. Today, I am going to talk with a guest who will share a different perspective and what it means to live a solo life. So if you have ever contemplated living the rest of your life solo. Stay with me, because this is going to be a very refreshing view on what being solo means. I hope you enjoy this episode.

Laurie James  

Welcome to Confessions of a Freebird podcast. I'm your host, Laurie James, a mother, divorcee, a recovering caregiver, the author of Sandwiched A Memoir of Holding on and Letting go, a therapy junkie, relationship coach, somatic healer and now podcaster. I'm a free spirit, and here to lift you up on this podcast, I'll share soulful confessions and empowering conversations with influential experts so you can learn to spread your wings and make the most of your second half. So pop in those ear buds, turn up the volume, and let's get inspired, because my mission is to help you create your most joyful, purpose driven life, one confession at a time. 

Laurie James  

Hey, there freebirds, today, you are in for a real treat, because I have the pleasure of speaking with Dr Peter McGraw. He's a bachelor behavioral economist, business school professor at the University of Colorado Boulder. He hosts the podcast Solo, The Single Person's Guide to a Remarkable Life. He writes for single insights, the science of solos, and hosts the solo salon. His latest book solo, which I'm halfway through, build a remarkable life of your own, launched earlier this year. He's also a global expert on the scientific study of humor. He founded the humor research lab, and has spent 15 years examining the antecedents and consequences of humor. He has also authored and co authored two books on what makes things funny and stick to business. And has also spoken at Fortune 500 companies, public events and universities worldwide. So Peter, welcome and thank you so much for being here today.

Peter McGraw  

Oh, my pleasure. Laurie

Laurie James  

And I have to confess, you are actually the first male I have had on my podcast, which has been out for about a year. And as a relationship gal, I'm really looking forward to learning more about how you found freedom flying solo. So can you start by telling our listeners what's inspired you to start the solo project and write your book.

Peter McGraw  

Ye ah, certainly this is not my first time being the first bloke as I've been described on a UK podcast. I'll do my best to represent my gender. Yeah, I'm uh, so, as you said in the bio, I'm a lifelong bachelor. I wouldn't say that I set out on this path, although my reservations around marriage started fairly early. So I recall a time I was having 15 ish and I was part of a lunch table in my high school. Really a great group of guys. It was a very diverse group of guys, charismatic, smart, funny. You know, I really felt lucky to be at that table. And it was a highlight of my day to spend an hour with these young men. And a topic is 1985 mind you, giving away my age came up. When will you get married? Not if, but when. And I think that can resonate with a lot of people, that most people think it's going to happen eventually. Some are eager to ride the relationship escalator, and some are resigned. Is a strong word, but they think it's likely to be in the cards. You know, things break the right way, and the answers around the table were in line with the norms of the day, which was I'll get married soon after college, right? So in 1985 the average age of first marriage was 25 all our parents were married by that age, more or less. They certainly had kids by age 30. And so that was not out of the realm. And I distinctly remember my answer to the question, which I answered trepidaciously, was, well, I probably won't get married till after I'm 30. So I was 15 putting off marriage, yeah, in a time that people didn't Well, of course, 30 came and went. I was not married, and I was a bit of a late bloomer when it came to the ladies. I'll admit that I wanted romance. I wanted to fall in love. And, you know, I managed to do that eventually. And I had, as I like to joke, I had a couple near misses. I spell it, M, I, S, S, E, S, but you can do the math on that, and that didn't work out for one reason or another. I think that's probably in each of those cases, for the best, there's a reason it didn't work out. You know, that goes and I later found myself grieving one of those, I don't want to say failed relationships. That's not the way to say it, but one of those relationships that had to end because she wanted kids and marriage, I didn't want kids, but would have been opened. Having a partnership with her. But she wanted it all. 

Laurie James  

She wanted the family, the whole package. 

Peter McGraw  

The whole thing. And she got it. She has the house in the suburbs, the two kids, the lap dog, the whole thing. So I'm very happy for her. And I remember exactly where I was, in my apartment, completely heartbroken.

Laurie James  

Yeah, you write about that in your book at the beginning. 

Peter McGraw  

And I mean, it took me a year to get over this. I was so heartbroken. And I remember one of the major steps that I experienced that really helped me was a realization I had, this is age 38 that I am happy when I'm single, that my life is not less than. That I am not incomplete.

Laurie James  

As you're saying that I'm like, getting chills over my body, right, like as that, because that resonated true for you. 

Peter McGraw  

It did.

Laurie James  

And good for you for following that and listening to that, because a lot of people follow the social norms.

Peter McGraw  

Yes, and they're strong and they're everywhere. They're modeled by your certainly your grandparents, probably your parents. They're in your love songs, they're in your television. They're in your movies, they're in the books that you read. And there is not a good alternative conversation happening about how life is equally worth living on the other side of a relationship, whether it be before or after, and that you are not less than as a single person, and that has become the most meaningful work that I've ever done. That is the earliest inkling I have of the solo project, which was really designed to be a resource that I wish I had, and I was more available to the world to say you have opportunities, you have options, you have a chance to create your remarkable life, rather than just defaulting into what the world says you should be behaving.

Laurie James  

Right and what society says. And you even talk about it in your book about how our government rewards us also for marriage.

Peter McGraw  

And punishes us for divorcing. 

Laurie James  

Yes.

Peter McGraw  

Right? So, yes, there's over 1000 laws that benefit married people. You know the obvious ones are things like social security benefits, tax breaks and so on, but it is a very long list. 

Laurie James  

Health insurance. 

Peter McGraw  

Exactly, yes.

Laurie James  

All of those things which I guess I don't know. Well, I'm going to get into this question next, because I'll figure out whether I'm considered solo at this point. Because I am a I am divorced. So what is the definition of solo?

Peter McGraw  

Okay, so by the way, I like your use of freebirds. I'll give you a little insight into naming my podcast. So I named the podcast Solo, The Single Person's Guide to a Remarkable Life. And in a previous book, I talked about how a lot of creativity occurs just through, like, sheer effort, Right? You know, it's like you just have the longer you work on a problem, the more likely you're going to come up with a novel solution. So one day I was in my apartment, I actually remember exactly where I was sitting in that apartment. I took out a sheet of paper, and I drew like nine lines down, down it, and then nine horizontal lines. So give me 100 boxes, okay? And then I don't know if I took an edible or had like a swig of whiskey, but I started brainstorming titles, and while solos just seems like it makes sense, I think for a lot of people, it didn't come to me till like, number 59 or something like that, but when I wrote it down, I knew I had a winner, and I did it largely because it's like, it's A much, it sounds much better than single. I think you think about like traveling solo, solo expeditions, yeah, those kinds of things. And one of the members, I have a community of like minded individuals, and one of the members of the community actually took me to task for my use of solo. They're like, it's ambiguous. It doesn't mean anything. What does it mean to be solo? And I was really appreciative of that listener, because it made me do some work to reflect on what is it that's the difference between being single and the difference between being solo? And so for your listeners who are partnered up happily or otherwise, they might be happy to know that not all singles are solo and not all solos are single. So what I am interested in doing as part of the solo movement is to transcend relationship status. Everybody wants to know whether you're single or married or somewhere in between, because they want to know how to treat you, and I believe that knowing whether someone is single or not single, married or not married, tells you very little about them. It doesn't tell you where they live, doesn't tell you how old they are, doesn't tell you what they do for fun, doesn't tell you what they do for work. It doesn't tell you how they fit the vacation to tell you whether happy or not, certainly. 

Laurie James  

Definitely not.

Peter McGraw  

Definitely not, right? So this is really about identity and about thinking about who you are. So let's, we'll do a little quiz here. Lauri, let's find out if you're solo or not. 

Laurie James  

Okay, okay, let's do that. 

Peter McGraw  

So there's three characteristics of a solo. I've already mentioned one of them, and that is that a solo is wholehearted. They see themselves as a complete person, not half of a whole. So they're not walking through life feeling less than until their quote, unquote person comes along. How do you do on that characteristic? 

Laurie James  

Okay, that is a really good question, because if you would have asked me before I got married, I mean, I was married for 26 years, I would say I was single, but I wasn't solo. After I left my marriage, I worked really hard on healing a lot of my childhood wounds, which I wrote about in my book, adoption, some abuse and various things which led me into a marriage that was not healthy at times. And so I would say that I am wholeheartedly because of the work that I have done on myself. 

Peter McGraw  

Wonderful. Yes, congratulations, thank you. Yeah, that's great. And I think that the average person isn't wholehearted, because where do you get the concept that you're I mean, you read Genesis, right, and it's, you know, two becomes one, right? So you learn it in catechism. You read it in Jane Austen, you see it when you watch The Notebook. 

Laurie James  

I met my soulmate. Now, I feel complete all of these things. And I have to say, because of my personal like, I have an anxious attachment style because of a lot of my stuff, and I am a relationship person in general, I feel like I am not that I'm more whole, but I think I'm happier in a relationship, typically. But after I left my marriage, I knew that I needed to get to a place where I was happy as an individual, as a wholehearted person that you're talking about before I could be happy in my next relationship. 

Peter McGraw  

Wonderful. Yes, amen. 

Laurie James  

Okay, so I passed number one. 

Peter McGraw  

Number one check. That's the most important one. So, okay, yeah. I mean, look, if you can shift that, and you know, at age 38 when I realized that I was happy when I was single, is when I became wholehearted.

Laurie James  

Yeah, right. Good for you.

Peter McGraw  

Now the second one again, culture has a big effect on how we view the world, right? So- 

Laurie James  

Absolutely. 

Peter McGraw  

Various cultures have various rules and milestones for when someone becomes an adult. So you could have a bar mitzvah, and now you're an adult at whatever age 14. In one African community, the boys, they have to jump over the backs of bolts, and if they can do that successfully, then they become a man. In a lot of Western culture, when is it that you become an adult? Is was often on your wedding day, right? Right? That you know you become a family man. You come, you know you have, you have kids right now you're an adult, right? You're doing adult things. I had a listener, excuse me, I had a guest on my podcast. Ira Schneider said something to me that was incredibly provocative and very useful, and her definition of what it means to be an adult is to be a good parent to yourself. Can you parent yourself? Can you take care of your basic needs? Can you feed yourself? Can you clothe yourself? Can you soothe yourself?

Laurie James  

And that the soothing part emotionally? Can you be a parent to yourself emotionally? That's a really hard one for a lot of people.

Peter McGraw  

It is and so what what's very interesting about it is that even if you can't jump over a back of bull, if you can parent yourself, you're an adult to me. Moreover, even if you have a wife and kids, you might not be an adult because you don't have the ability to parent yourself. I've warned men about this oftentimes, which is like, if you give up all the parenting responsibilities to your wife or your partner, at some point, they're going to realize that they've got these two kids, and then they've got this third child, and no one wants to have sex with their children, and so you become expendable, in a sense. 

Laurie James  

That was my father. 

Peter McGraw  

Yeah, it happens. I mean, it happens a lot. And you know, by the way, it doesn't mean that you you should shoot regular gender roles, whatever, but you just need to be able to do it yourself. Should you need to? And so what I say is a solo is a good parent to themselves. They have a sense of self sufficiency, a sense of self reliance, a sense of autonomy, which then allows their relationships to be more interdependent, rather than CO dependent, right? And so you're now choosing this relationship rather than requiring it to survive. 

Laurie James  

Or needing it to feel like needing to attach so that way you can feel safe.

Peter McGraw  

Indeed. Now for me, this actually started around age 15. Started young. I was the eldest son of a single mother working three terrible jobs to make ends meet. I got my first job at 13, 14. I was buying my own school clothes. I was help running a household. I grew up fast, and I had, at one point in time, had a really lovely, wonderful girlfriend, and I met her not as not as warm mother, who's after spending a weekend with me and her said he doesn't need you. And she did not mean this as the compliment her view of the world was, if you want to capture a man, he needs you to survive now, right? You know I was like but I wanted to be with her daughter, not because she was a good cook or because of an event, but because she was just a wonderful human being. And so this notion of self reliance, independence, being a good parent yourself, is the second criteria. 

Laurie James  

Okay, check. 

Peter McGraw  

Check. I'm not surprised by that.

Laurie James  

I was similar in that my mom was always a school teacher, and so she went back to get her masters, because she was a special at the time. They called it special ed. So she was a special ed teacher, so that way she could make more money and more retirement blah, blah, blah, because she was the primary breadwinner. And I had two older brothers, so I kind of stepped into that role of doing the laundry and cleaning and God love her. She was a wonderful person, but she wasn't the most domestic person, and so I kind of took on those roles. So okay, check I feel good about that.

Peter McGraw  

Yes, wonderful. So the third one is one that I think people can kind of grow into, and even just by virtue of listening to your podcast, I suspect a lot of your listeners might already be have this characteristic. And what is it? I'd like to say that solos think non conventionally, about relationships specifically and then about life more generally. That is, they have a tendency to question the rules, even if they decide to follow the rule. But their instinct is, why does this exist? Does it serve me? So, for example, marriage, right? So, marriage is a fairly new invention in human history. It's only about 7000 years old or so. Marriage was invented not for the happiness of the two individuals. It was invented as a business arrangement, and it serves society very, very nicely, and it has very clear rules. We can talk about what those rules are. No one ever sits down and says, Laurie, let me teach you the rules of marriage. They're just everywhere, and you just assume you're going to have to follow them if you're going to ride the relationship escalator. And so solos tend to question, well, is that rule right for us? Is it right for me? Do I have to do it this way? Do I want to do it this way? And so they tend to be rule benders, Rule Breakers, at the very least, rule questioners.

Laurie James  

Yes, and I love that one, and I think that I fell into that later in life too, because, well, I've kind of always like sang to my own tune, but I wanted that traditional family from an early age. I knew I wanted to be married. I knew I wanted a family, but I think underlying that partly, and I've talked about this on my podcast, is I wanted that partly because, and I have no idea why balloons are going off in my zoom, it does that randomly, because underlying, I think if I had that ideal family that I didn't necessarily have as a child. I thought that was going to save me. I see and nothing could be further from the truth.

Peter McGraw  

Yeah, I understand it's you're better off coming to a relationship working through your stuff rather than using a relationship to work through your stuff. I think, you know, I would say this to bring this full circle, the only requirement is to question. You can still do the traditional things, as long as you choose them, in my opinion, and so as a result, you can be solo in a relationship. 

Laurie James  

Yeah. So what does that look like? 

Peter McGraw  

So you could, you'll be wholehearted, right? You can parent yourself. You may rely on partner. But if, for some reason, you know, we have a 33% divorce rate. If you're a woman, you're very likely going to outlive your husband, right? We have a an age gap of 5.9 years, or something like that. People become disabled, right? So things may change that you are now not just struggling. So you can always flip that switch as needed. And then the last one is, even if you do the traditional stuff, you choose to do the traditional stuff, right? So you you have a conversation with your partner. Do we want to live together? Yeah, right, rather than, well, I guess we're going to have to move in, you know, right?

Laurie James  

Because of the external situation. 

Laurie James  

It seems to definitely be on the rise these days. 

Peter McGraw  

Are we going to share a bed? Right? Like this is a much more common thing that's happening nowadays where two people are like, we're going to have separate bedrooms. And some people find that morally problematic, right? They think there's something wrong with a relationship in which the two people don't share a bed. But I'm like, I think, dude, you snore, no, right? Or I like nice and cool with a heavy blanket, and you like it nice and warm with a heavy blanket, right? That's not going to work, you know. So then you could get even a little freakier, like, do we want to have some non monogamy in our relationship, whether it be sexual or romantic or both, right? 

Peter McGraw  

No doubt. 

Laurie James  

I hear more and more about that, for sure, and what are the ground rules, or, you know, within those relationships for you as an individual.

Peter McGraw  

What are the agreements and what are the rules and requirements? How are we going to talk about it, you know, and so on.

Laurie James  

And I think the bigger piece with that, because I hear, I have a bunch of therapist friends, so I hear some stories, and it's like, okay, are you doing that whole is everybody in that relationship doing it wholeheartedly?

Peter McGraw  

Absolutely, yes with integrity. 

Laurie James  

Because if not everybody's doing that wholeheartedly, that doesn't feel like a polyamorous type of relationship. That might feel a little, I don't want to say cheating, but maybe deceptive in some way.

Peter McGraw  

Well, or I think the vernacular would be non ethical, right? So, you know, it's interesting that people talk about ethical non monogamy. What they're contrasting it with is non monogamy, which is usually assumed to be cheating in some way, and there's plenty of that already existing within relationships. And so the introduction of ethical non monogamy might be something that's on the table. I'm not prescribing any of these things. I just think it's worth if you have those proclivities, if you have those desires, that you know you can explore them, if you're willing to question the rules to begin with.

Laurie James  

Right. And be open and honest about it with all parties, for sure. 

Peter McGraw  

I mean, I think honesty is a superpower when it comes to relationships.

Laurie James  

Yeah, I am in full agreement.

Peter McGraw  

It's hard. It is hard because you risk the No, you risk some. You know what is? What the kids say today is, you risk the ick right? You risk the ick right. So, for example, I'll speak for myself. I do date. I do have relationships, regardless of the trajectory of that relationship. I'm not interested in living with a partner, okay. I like living alone, okay? And I like my solitude by also like being 100% present when I'm with someone that I care about, friend or more. But even the idea of like someone staying over is not high on my list of things to do. And so you could imagine a situation where you like someone, you care about them, you're attracted to them, you want them to want you, but you don't want them to stay over, right? So you have a choice, right? You could have them stay over and not be authentic to what you want because you're scared to say to them, Listen, I really like you, but I'd like to sleep alone right, as much as I like you, right, and then risking the fact that they go, what's wrong with you. 

Laurie James  

Right. Like, why don't you want to sleep here? 

Peter McGraw  

If you liked me enough, kind of a thing. So, you know, can you own your desires and approach that situation with an open heart and open mind, but with the honesty that allows you to be the best version of yourself within the relationship.

Laurie James  

Right and trust that they may not, if you can be honest, that they may not run away, or if they do, maybe that's not the right person for you.

Peter McGraw  

Exactly like if I meet someone and I start dating that person, and they're like, five nights a week, let's stay over, let's play house kind of thing. I'm an ill match for them, and it's better to find that out sooner than later. I find people are adaptable. They have their must haves, and then there's, like, the sort of negotiable stuff that's out there, and but the only way you could discover this stuff is through honest conversation.

Laurie James  

Yeah, and have you run into situations, though, with women that you've dated that maybe, like, took that information the wrong way, or was were hurt when you shared this honesty about your needs and wants?

Peter McGraw  

Yeah, certainly, I think what happens is, when you go solo, so to speak, in some ways, it's really liberating and it's really exciting, because you get to live your most authentic life. But it's not easier, because what you have to do is, for every new relationship, you have to kind of trailblaze a new path. And so while most people are traditional, right? That sort of, of course, most people are traditional, because that's you need most people doing something for it to become traditional. You suddenly run into a lot of friction. Because imagine growing up on Jane Austen and watching The Notebook and listening to love songs, which is love conquers all. Well, if you loved me enough, you should be willing to follow this script. And because she wants the script, she's in the right.

Laurie James  

Yes, and by the way, I don't think that's strictly gendered, but I do- 

Laurie James  

Or what I also see women doing, and you know, some clients that I work with is they think they can convince you otherwise, you know, so like, if you're honest up front with who you are and what you want out of a relationship and what you can give and what you can't give. I think sometimes women are like, well, if I'm sweet enough, if I'm nice enough, if I whatever, enough that he's gonna see that he loves me, enough that he's gonna change.

Laurie James  

Right, agree.

Peter McGraw  

But I do see this. You know, look, there's a story about this. It's called Beauty and the Beast, right? And you know what I mean. And so, yeah, I often say, careful what you wish for when it comes to that, like, the idea of, like, I'm gonna take this person and I'm gonna transform them into the person I want them to be, in part, because I think that there's something healthy and dynamic about a relationship where there are differences and some give and take and some novelty, and not just someone is completely in lockstep with how you want them to behave. In part, because there is sort of a transformation. This may be controversial. Please tell me if you think it is that act of turning that person, let's say, a man, into the man you want him to be, in some ways, may elevate him, right? May make him a better person in some ways, and so on. But there is also this worry that you turn him into your extra child. And there's something that, like the friskiness of we're speaking heteronormatively here, but the friskiness of masculine and feminine and the tussle, as long as it's loving and fun and warm, I think it's good for relationships. 

Laurie James  

Yeah, I agree. I think we need to have our individuality within the relationship, right? And it's okay to not agree to everything that he wants to do or that she wants to do. And I like almond milk. You like whole milk, whatever it is, or I like frozen bananas in my smoothie, and you don't, it's like, it's okay to bring whatever it is your own individuality to the relationship. But I also think it's we need to respect that other person, where that other person is coming from. I may think respect in any relationship is huge honesty, respect, that's just the foundation. So yes, I'm in at full agreement with you, but I still think there is a tendency, and even I find myself getting kind of caught up in this sometimes, because I am in a relationship with somebody I've been dating for almost three years post divorce of wanting to see some change for the better, whether it's a health issue or something like that, but on a different spectrum, you know, as we're talking about living together or not or and the social norms of, Okay, I'm almost 60 years old and I am financially secure, do I? You know, I'm kind of navigating some of those same issues of and I think it's okay. You know, just because you're in a long term relationship doesn't necessarily in midlife, doesn't necessarily mean that you need to move in together. That you need to get married again.

Peter McGraw  

Yes, oh, I 100% agree again. This is about what are the norms, right? And so Eli Finkle has a really wonderful book called The All or Nothing Marriage. So I alluded to a particular form of marriage that existed when we started farming, right? And so this was the arranged marriage where your family picked your partner and it was a business alliance. And as a woman in that relationship, you might hope that love emerges. You might hope that your spouse does not beat you right, like this was how low the bar was for a good marriage back then, as women started to capture some of the equality that they deserved, and able to vote and so on, they were able to capture some more equality within relationships. One of the biggest things was that they could choose their partner. And so we had the rise of the love marriage around 1960 especially as we started to embrace kind of self development, and started thinking and and the feminist movement really started to take hold. We had this third version of marriage, which Eli calls The All or Nothing Marriage, where your relationship, excuse me, where your partner is to be everything they are supposed to be your activity partner. They're supposed to push you professionally, they're supposed to push you personally. You're supposed to want to vacation in the same places our parents' parents did not have those expectations of their relationship, and so suddenly, the bar for what constitutes a good relationship is so high now that what we're finding is while relationships tend to be better than our parents' parents, we're less satisfied, so satisfaction with marriage have been going down since the 1960s even though, objectively, relationships are getting better and women have more equality within those relationships. And so I invite people, when you're thinking about changing your partner. I can appreciate the idea that like, and I do this with my friends. Like, you know, my friends were middle aged, like, some of them have gained too much weight. I want them to be around. I want them to lose weight. You know what I mean, you know. And so I want to do what I can to help foster their good, healthy habits in that way. And I will have honest conversations with my concerns about those but I'm not interested in shaping my friends into exactly the perfect friends. I like my friends to be flawed. I'm flawed. I have a tremendous tolerance for weirdos in my life, as long as they are good hearted, high integrity, anti jealous, et cetera. And I have the same for my romantic and or sexual partners. And so where can you just relax the rules? Like, I think one of the big ones is, like, there's a lot of activities that we drag a partner to, or there's a lot of activities that we don't go to because our partner doesn't want to go to them. And so we live in this compromise world. Can we make it more of a coordinating world, right? So I'm gonna go to this show. I know you don't like death metal, so I'm gonna go to my death metal show. You go do high tea or whatever you want to do, and then I'll see you tomorrow, and we'll talk about our experience. 

Laurie James  

Well, it's the old vin diagram, right? Yes. And it's like, okay, it goes back to individuality, but do you have enough? I mean, this is what I talk about with women that you know are out there dating. It's like, is there enough crossover, right? Can you be your individual person, but do you have enough in common? And maybe that's compatibility for a relationship, but I agree with you, it's like because I am an individual and I'm independent, and I think that stems from my childhood, and in my marriage, there was a sense of suffocation because my ex husband, he could do whatever he wanted, And, you know, big job, big career, all of that, very successful, but I couldn't, right? It was unfair, and I needed to be there to support him, and granted, I wanted that traditional marriage, but not just maybe not to that level, right? Because I am a free spirit at heart, and, you know, I'm a free bird, and I like that freedom, so I think that that is super important, and I like that message that you're sending of you can have both. You can have your individuality and you can have a relationship.

Peter McGraw  

Yeah, solos are connected. They're not hermits. They're not typically isolationists. They usually have actually So speaking of sort of single people, more generally, they actually tend to have more friends than married people. They're more involved in their community. They give more time and money proportionally, in part because. Because that traditional relationship crowds out a lot of opportunities. And so one of the things that I'm saying is that when you are single, whether it's by choice or by chance, it creates opportunity to live a remarkable life. And it's worth exploring that, I think, if you're post divorce or as you're contemplating what you want your path to look like in your later years, how might you craft a remarkable life independent of sex or romance, right?

Laurie James  

Well, and so that's a really good question, because if somebody is listening and they're trying to contemplate and kind of figure out this next phase of their life, this next chapter of their life based off of your experience. What are two or three things that they can do to do that, to kind of figure out, okay, like, maybe they're retired, or coming up on retirement, if they do have kids, their kids are gone, or maybe they don't have kids like, what do I do? Because I think our society in general looks at older individuals of your washed up, like, what do you have to contribute to society? Kind of thing? What? Yeah, and I agree to that.

Peter McGraw  

I really appreciate this question, because we're not talking enough about this, I think, and this is going to continue to be the case. So 25% of millennials are projected by Pew Center to never marry, right? So this is already happening. So older individuals are more likely to be single than middle aged folks because of divorce and not remarrying and because of death. And then you also have a gender skew, right? So if you're a heterosexual woman who's 70, and you look around, you're like, where are the good guys, right? And part of them, a bunch of them, are in the ground already. And so some of this is a situation where it just can become fraught. Should you want to rinse and repeat from a relationship standpoint? So I present a model. I call it the foundation flourish model. And I think the model is useful regardless of whatever age you're at. And what it does is it can accommodate changes in what it means to live a remarkable life that can occur due to development, that there is no one remarkable life, there are remarkable lives. So Scott Barry Kaufman talks about sort of a model of well being like a sailboat.

Laurie James  

Love that I grew up sailing. So I love where this is going, yeah.

Peter McGraw  

So what the two most important elements of a sailboat is the hull and the sail, right? So the hull keeps you afloat in still water or in choppy water. And so that's the foundation, as I refer to it. And there's three elements to foundation. There's your health, right? So are you taking care of your health? Do you have good health? Are you moving your body? Are you eating well? Are you sleeping well, right? Do you feel good? Do you have a vigorous life because you're taking care of those elements next your wealth? Are you working to a life in which you are debt free, which you're saving, where you have housing security, financial security, food security. So whether that be like developing good spending habits, creating a career which you have some ability to create value in the world, and preparing perhaps for a long life, because you're taking care of your health you might live forever, you know. And then the last one is connection. So one of the very clear things that people who live a good life have is they have breadth and depth of connections, right? So not just one person, but a community. So friends, family, community, and as you get older, I would say is it becomes even more important for that community connections to be multi generational, right? So develop friendships with people who are younger than you, because if you live long enough, you're going to outlive everybody you care about, and suddenly you can become very isolated, right? And so having younger friends is important. Being involved in your community is important so that it's it's a seamless thing. So that's what keeps you afloat. One of the things that I like about the sailboat metaphor, as opposed to like a train metaphor, is that imagine a big ocean, right, with 8 billion sailboats on it, right? Some are sinking, not doing so well. Some the sale is down, right, like so you know, you're ill and you're just trying to get back to things. But you can also imagine all the different directions that they're going. There's no just one path. And so the flourishing part of the model is the sail. And there are different ways to flourish, right? So one of the ways is through purpose. Are you living a purpose driven life? Whether that be, are you. You pursuing achievement, you're doing something bigger than yourself for yourself. You're going to run your first marathon, for example, you're going back to school to get the master's degree that you always dreamed of, that you put off because you were busy raising kids. Or is the purpose meaning you're doing something bigger than yourself for others, right? So are you trying to cure cancer? Are you raising children? Are you taking care of an elderly parent? Are you starting a non profit? Are you volunteering in a soup kitchen?

Laurie James  

Volunteering at your church or synagogue? 

Peter McGraw  

Indeed? Yeah, yes, right? And so that's one path of flourishing via purpose, right? Another path is through engagement, is through creative endeavors, through art, through science, right through problem solving problems. So when you wrote your book, I'm sure you had moments where you were just struggling, never, I can't pick the word, and I just but then you probably also had moments where you're just typing away- 

Laurie James  

Yep, and you're in the flow.

Peter McGraw  

Exactly. It's just, it's just pouring out of you, and you're like, oh my god, like two hours just went by. It felt like 10 minutes, right? So these creative endeavors, engagement is another way to flourish in the world that that positive feeling, the creative feeling that you have, it could be, by the way, it doesn't have to be writing, it could be gardening, it could be sewing, it could be coding. It could be planning a party. It does-

Laurie James  

Painting, drawing, all of it. Cooking, cooking is also creative. Like- 

Peter McGraw  

Absolutely, yeah, you cook? 

Laurie James  

Yes.

Peter McGraw  

Yes, yeah, you're solving problems. Like, Oh, what if I put a little bit more salt in there? How will that be, right? You know, yes, exactly. I actually use cooking in the book as an example of how some tasks can be both a foundational and a flourishing Oh yeah, activity, right? Yeah. So think about it. When you cook at home, you tend to save money, yeah, you tend to eat more nutritiously, yep. And now you're cooking, maybe to bring people together, yeah, right. 

Laurie James  

One of my favorite things to do it's like, bring my kids and nephews together and friends, yeah, yeah.

Peter McGraw  

And you're doing this now, you're creating meaningful experiences for people, you're creating good memories, you're developing your creative instincts and abilities. And then this also segues into the last version of flourishing, which is just, how do you create a life with more positive emotion, with more pleasure, whether that be good sex, good food, all inspiring events, seeing the majesty of the world, seeing the Rocky Mountains, seeing the beauty in the desert, walking on the beach and enjoying a sunset, the infinite number of ways that you can find pleasure in a world that seems so often hell bent on making you unhappy.

Laurie James  

Well, right? Because negativity sells. Negativity gets you to watch the five o'clock news or the seven o'clock whatever it is like, Oh, my God, is the world falling down around me today? What? What happened today?

Yes, right? And of course, the people who are trying to make you feel bad want to sell you something, right, right? They want to sell you, sell you some issue, something to fix your problems. So they need to, they need to focus you on your problems. 

Laurie James  

Well and our brains tend to focus on the negative, just as a natural occurrence, because we're always trying to keep ourselves safe, so we're always looking for that negativity or that threat in our life, right? So that way we can stay alive too. So that's another issue that we have, and so it is work and effort I have found to re to change my mindset and to focus on the positive of what's happening, right? Like, you know, I'm stuck in traffic or my flight is delayed, okay? I have to sit here in traffic. No, I get to sit here and maybe I listen to that podcast, Peter McGraw's podcast that I've been waiting to listen to, or, you know, listen to my book, or whatever it is. It's like, look at things as opportunities, not as deficits. 

Peter McGraw  

Wonderful. Yeah. 

Laurie James  

So as we come to a close, what is a confession that you'd like to share with our listeners about soloism, my word that I came up with, or something that we haven't touched on, that you think might be valuable confession? 

Peter McGraw  

I love that word. Mm.

Laurie James  

Oh, not everybody likes that word.

Peter McGraw

I know, I know. This is really good. This is 

Laurie James  

I love it.

Peter McGraw

Okay. I think that you need to be prepared for a lot of growth if you're going to embrace your soloism, your solo hood, your soloness. Because what it's going to do is, besides, it's going to get you out of your comfort zone and force you to really think about what makes you happy, rather than what the world is telling you will make you happy. It's going to create friction in your life, because not everyone is going to approve of they're not going to agree with your choices, because what they're going to use is their own standards for what makes them happy, for the way you ought to behave. It's incredible how opinionated people are about how other people ought to behave in this way, and so as a result, you're going to have to have some honest, authentic, sometimes unpleasant conversations with people, where you're going to have to be the bigger person. We're going to need to educate them a little bit, and you're going to have to assure them that this is right for me. This is, you know, even if you have to frame it as an experiment, and that you appreciate that they love you and that they care about you, and that you love them and you care about them. But this is my choice. 

Laurie James

Yeah, and and that you're happy. 

Peter McGraw

Yes, yes 

Laurie James

Because people often think, and, you know, I hear this from friends, family members and some clients of like, well, you need to be x, y and z to be happy. It's like, Who are you to tell me what's going to make me happy? How about trusting the individual that you're sitting across from, that they know themselves better than anybody else, and that they know what's going to make them happy, and even if they aren't happy, maybe let them fail and try different things till they figure out what is going to make them happy.

Peter McGraw

Amen, wonderful. I love it. 

Laurie James

So thank you, Peter, so much for your time, and congratulations on your book. I look forward to staying connected, and I guess I'm officially a solo. 

Peter McGraw

Welcome to the movement. 

Laurie James

Community member, I love it. 

Laurie James

Thank you for listening to this episode of Confessions of a Freebird. I'm grateful to be in your ears and hearts. If you're interested in becoming a free bird, I'd love to support you. Please check out my website at laurieejames.com to learn how we can work together, or to sign up for my newsletter so you can receive tips on how to date and relationship differently and ultimately, find more freedom and joy in your life. If you found this podcast helpful, please follow or subscribe, rate and review and share it with friends so they can find more freedom in their second or third act. Also until next time.