Understand Divorce Finances and How to Prepare for a Strong Financial Future with Jennifer Lee

Divorcing in midlife can feel like your life has been turned upside down. The next step is unraveling a lifetime of savings and assets you’ve built together.

Navigating through the emotional and financial ups and downs of managing and understanding your divorce finances can be overwhelming, but with the right team, the process can be less painful and even save you money in the long run. 

In this episode, I welcome Jennifer Lee, a certified financial planner and author of “Squeeze The Juice." Jennifer specializes in helping women manage during major life changes like divorce or widowhood.

Key takeaways from this episode include:

• The importance of confronting your finances head-on after a divorce and not stick your head in the sand.
• Know your “why” when it comes to your money.
• Build a healthier relationship with your money.
• How to choose the right financial advisor (and why having a fiduciary is key!).
• Why it’s smart to take small steps toward your financial future instead of trying to figure everything out at once when it comes to managing your money.
• What a QDRO is and its significance to you.
• The significance of legacy planning—and why creating a legacy can be more than just leaving money behind.

Whether you're going through a significant financial shift or you want to learn how to manage uncertainty with more confidence, this episode is packed with valuable tips! 

Take the next step towards your financial independence by tuning in and facing your finances head-on!

Cheers to more financial freedom,

Laurie

These guides will help you take the next step in life. 

Click here to learn about my November 6th  “Somatic Healing” class - RECOVER

Click here for my FREE “Somatic Healing for Beginners Guide”

Click here for my FREE Core Values Exercise

Click here to purchase my book: Sandwiched: A Memoir of Holding On and Letting Go

Sign up for my newsletter here to stay current on my upcoming offerings and podcast interviews!

Website

About Jennifer:

Website 

Squeeze the Juice Book

Schedule a call with Jennifer

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DISCLAIMER: THE COMMENTARY AND OPINIONS AVAILABLE ON THIS PODCAST ARE FOR INFORMATIONAL AND ENTERTAINMENT PURPOSES ONLY AND NOT FOR THE PURPOSE OF PROVIDING LEGAL, MEDICAL OR PROFESSIONAL ADVICE. YOU SHOULD CONTACT A LICENSED THERAPIST IF YOU ARE EXPERIENCING SUICIDAL THOUGHTS. YOU SHOULD CONTACT AN ATTORNEY IN YOUR STATE TO OBTAIN LEGAL ADVICE. YOU SHOULD CONTACT A LICENSED MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL WITH RESPECT TO ANY MEDICAL ISSUE OR PROBLEM.

Transcript

Laurie James  
Hey there. It's Laurie. Don't fast forward yet, because I have two quick announcements. The first one is, I am running a contest that you are going to want to be part of. If you leave a review for my podcast and send me communication in the one way, text link in the show notes, your name will be put in a drawing to either receive a $50 gift card, or you can use that $50 toward a coaching session with me or one of my classes. The best way to leave a review is go to Apple podcasts, search for Confessions of a Freebird, or go into the library link, click on Confessions of a Freebird, scroll down past the episodes until you see ratings and reviews. Right below that, you'll see five stars. Click how many of our stars you'd like to give me? I hope you give me five. And once you do that, right below that, it says, write a review, even if you just give me stars and don't write a review, let me know, or if you write a review, that's even better, even if you just say one sentence. And I will be announcing this November 7, so make sure that you do that soon. And secondly, I have my next somatic class coming up November 6. The topic will be how to manage uncertainty through a somatic lens, and God only knows that there's a lot of uncertainty in our life right now. So go ahead and click the link in the show notes if you're interested in that. My monthly somatic class in October was a great hit. I got really wonderful feedback. So you won't want to miss this to develop a better relationship with your nervous system as we are dealing with uncertainty. So I hope to see you in that class and enjoy my conversation with Jennifer Lee, who is a certified financial planner and author of Squeeze The Juice. We have a wonderful conversation about how you can take control over your finances post divorce and what a legacy means to you and how to leave one for your children. So enjoy this podcast. 

Laurie James  
Welcome to Confessions of a Freebird podcast. I'm your host. Laurie James, a mother, divorcee, recovering caregiver, the author of Sandwiched A Memoir of Holding on and Letting go. A therapy junkie, relationship coach, somatic healer and now podcaster. I'm a free spirit, and here to lift you up on this podcast, I'll share soulful confessions and empowering conversations with influential experts so you can learn to spread your wings and make the most of your second half. So pop in those earbuds, turn up the volume, and let's get inspired, because my mission is to help you create your most joyful, purpose driven life, one confession at a time. 

Laurie James  
Welcome back, free birds. Today, you are in for a treat. I have the pleasure of speaking with Jennifer Lee, and she is a financial advisor, an AWMA, an AIF, which she can share a little bit more about. She's also the author of Squeeze The Juice, live with purpose then leave a legacy, which I love that subtitle. And she's a founding partner of modern wealth. Jennifer directs her financial acuity to helping those who are in financial transition, whether divorcing, recently widowed, buying or selling a business, retiring, inheriting assets or merging families after marriage, and encouraging them to face financial decisions head on. So welcome, Jennifer, thanks so much for being here with me today.

Jennifer Lee  
My pleasure absolutely thanks for having me. 

Laurie James  
Yeah, so I loved your book and found your relationship with your father so endearing. Can you start by telling me and the listeners just a little bit more about that relationship?

Jennifer Lee  
You know, and it's so cute, because today is actually his birthday. Oh, there's a flurry of photos that are going back and forth in a family thread. You know, everybody's showing their favorite photos on my dad with them. I grew up in a family with two working class parents. My father, he's a self made man, so he dug in and created a wealth management practice that, yeah. For almost 50 years. So I grew up, I get it honest, I love talking about money. I'm not scared to talk about money, but most of my clients would rather stick their head in the sand, but think about these subjects.

Laurie James  
Yes, and we're going to get into that later. 

Jennifer Lee  
Yeah. So I try to make the subject matter of money easy, and that's really what the book is about. It's their stories, so that hopefully the reader's going to accidentally learn something financial. The worst thing is going to happen is you'll have an idea from it. 

Laurie James  
And it's a super easy read, by the way, everybody super easy, super accessible. I love all your prompts. They're so wonderful. And you also talk about sitting at your dad's desk on the weekends and playing with paper clips. How was that for you growing up? 

Jennifer Lee  
Oh, I'm the firstborn, and probably was a challenge for my mother, maybe as a little kid. And so I was sent to the office with my dad a lot on the weekends, and that was cool, you know? I mean, the craziest thing is, he would always park the car behind the building in this alleyway, and we've been in the building for hours. Never get towed. I mean, I don't know what he was thinking, but yeah, we were in this big old bank building, and I was playing and making a mess of the secretary's desk. That's we called office managers, Operations Managers today, back then, and 20 years later, come to find out she is so particular that I said to her, said, Oh my God. I said, I remember destroying your desk on the weekends. What must you have thought on Monday morning? Stuff was everywhere? And what was her response? Oh, she just kind of chuckled, you know. I mean, what could you do? She probably was not that happy years ago, but it was 20 years later, so. 

Laurie James  
I love that. 

Jennifer Lee  
Yeah.

Laurie James  
Can you also tell us why you decided to write your book? Like being a financial person, what drew you to this?

Jennifer Lee  
Well, it's interesting. I was talking to a colleague, and she said you should write a book. And I chuckled, and I said, I would rather do your tax return. I said, I'm not writing a book when I read it, I I'm not a writer. I mean, give me some numbers, let me look at some financial stuff. And she said, No. She said, You've been doing this a long time. It's second nature for you, and it's not for other people. She said, You have stories. You gotta tell those stories. So she prompted me to write a few of those, and then I kept expanding on expanding on it. And I finished it really during covid. So I would get up early in the morning and I would just keep fleshing it out. I'm a woman who likes to be very few words and get to the bottom line. So she would read, you go, Okay, but what does that mean? You know, give me some context that's expanding and expanding it, because I want to get right to the juice, but it was actually a fun experience and enjoyable wrapping my family in it, because I couldn't unravel them from my life. So. 

Laurie James  
Yeah, definitely, I understand that our family's everything to us, right? 

Jennifer Lee  
It is. 

Laurie James  
So you are AWMA and AIF, when I was looking to switch my financial advisor, I know it's important to find somebody who has a fiduciary designation. Can you share with our listeners why that's important to have this fiduciary designation and what your designations are? 

Jennifer Lee  
Sure. No, I appreciate that. You know, I think that there are lots of people out there in all different careers and attorneys, tax preparers, financial advisors, and we're not all the same. The consumer thinks we're all the same. There are some regulations that protect the consumer from a big picture perspective, where a licensed advisor is to be working in your best interest as a fiduciary. The AIF is an Accredited Investment Fiduciary, it's an extra step. It's extra annual CES. There's a fee associated with it. It's just an a higher level, but everybody is supposed to be acting and in your best interest. What you mostly, I think, in the AWMA, as a credit of wealth management advisors, just another money oriented structuring portfolios designation. So in my opinion, what you want to do if you're looking for a new advisor is you want to ask around your friends and see who they know, like and trust, and you can look them up online, then you want to have a conversation with them, because anybody can sell you a product or sell you on an idea. I'm probably not a good salesperson, but I'm an excellent consultant. And so I don't like to be sold if I'm going to go buy a car. I like to do it all online before I even get there, because I don't want to be harassed by somebody. And so I don't do that, right? I am interested in establishing rapport and establishing a relationship, and then having that client for 20 years, not just let me. You something. So it depends on what you're looking for. If you want to just buy something, go to Bank of America and see their financial advisor, and they'll be happy to sell you something. But if you're looking for somebody to help you structure what your life is going to look like after divorce or you recently lost a spouse and you're not the money person, then you really need somebody who is going to act in your best interest ask you questions beyond, what money do you have? Yes, okay, we need to deal with the money and how it's invested in all of that. But for me, it's like, what do you have? What's that income, assets and resources and Laurie, what do you want like? What's your life going to look like? What do you want your money to do for you, and those sometimes is the hardest part. We tease that out. That's our job. 

Laurie James  
It is true, and it changes too. You know, there's that, I don't know what commercial it is, but there's a commercial where this couple comes back in and they talk about the Well, now I have a grand child. Well, let's sit down and readjust. And so life is always, ever changing. So how do we as a client stay nimble with that? And how do you as an advisor stay nimble with that? 

Jennifer Lee  
Well, that's a fun part for us. So our practice, 95% of it is advisory, meaning it's a fee based on the assets that you have, and so depending on the complexity of your needs, we're meeting as often as quarterly or unless you have a problem even more frequently, but the minimum is once a year, and that is because I need to know what's happening in your life that I don't know about. You might have told me that you're planning a $50,000 vacation because we want to set money aside if it's happening in your life and it's going to affect your finances, I need to know at some point, so I want you to tell me, so that we can then address how things are going to look from a financial perspective. You're having a baby, a grandbaby, that's exciting, right? We want to start thinking about, do you want to fund some education accounts? Do you need to be making sure you have extra money to travel to that location? Because maybe they don't live in the city and you're going to go see them every month because you're baby obsessed. We definitely want to accommodate what you want in life.

Laurie James  
Yeah. So what do you see as some of the biggest challenges, especially for women who either maybe lost a spouse or going through a divorce? What are some of the biggest financial challenges you see with those women?

Jennifer Lee  
Yeah, I'm gonna say the first thing is fear. It's overwhelm, and then anxiety comes with that. So what I want to say is, look, sometimes people will say to me, Well, I can't really talk to you yet because I don't have everything put together. Well, that's not true. You actually want to come to me and go, Jennifer, I don't even know where to start. I'm overwhelmed. I got all this stuff. I know we have accounts, but how are we going to do this? I mean, right now, we have a client who recently lost her husband, I think, in May, and there are probably 25 accounts, and their IRAs, their personal accounts, they're different banks. They're oil plays. It's overwhelming. She's the non moneyed person. She never dealt with this stuff, so I could just see her shutting down. 

Laurie James  
Right? We and we talked about this before. I mean, that's a free state, right? When you shut down like that, you can't function. You can't Well, your prefrontal cortex turns off. So then, then what do you do? 

Jennifer Lee  
Well, so with my clients, what I do is I say, Well, this particular client, it's a very good friend of mine, sister. So I ended up, I said, when she called me, and she said, I need you to talk with her and see if you can help her. And I said, I'm happy to, so I'll set up a zoom. I'm in Florida, and she's in Delaware, and she goes, she's not going to do zoom. I said, alright, I'll come. So, I mean, I have family there and other clients there. So I ended up going, and I spent the night because I wanted, on the first day for her to talk with me about what's on her mind, what she's anxious about. And around 430 in the afternoon, I saw her face start to slide down. I said, Have you had enough for today? And she said, Yes. I said, sorry, let's have a glass of wine, and then let's go to dinner. But then the next morning, we did the same thing. Okay? Now we can dig into it a little bit deeper. You know, it's a process. It's been a month and a half, but we're still transitioning other accounts and getting paperwork from all those places, but we're doing it for her.

Laurie James  
Right. And you're collaborating, or you're the trusted advisor. But I think the other what I'm hearing you say and tell me if I'm wrong, is you take it in small chunks, right? So coaching, we call that baby steps, turtle steps, like we want to take it slow, because when we think, oh my god, I have to close 25 accounts and transfer and do this and do that? Yeah, I'm going to shut down too. But it's like, okay, what do I need to do today? What information do I need to give Jennifer today, right here, right now, and not think about the overwhelming additional things that are sitting that are looming out there?

Jennifer Lee  
Yeah, I think that that's part of what makes our firm a little bit different. There's three of us. We all happen to be women. We don't discriminate, but we just happen to be women in our practice. And our job is not to hurry along and get your account over here. Our job is to make sure that you feel heard. You feel like we have a clear vision of what you want to accomplish, and that we're we've communicated what we're doing, and then reminding you, you know, so am I going to say, Jennifer, just make the decision. Well, I can't do that. I can educate you about it, help you make it. You make it, and then six months later, when you come back in, I review it, and I remind you why we did what we did right, and that's the rapport and the relationship we have with our clients. 

Laurie James  
And what do you want to say to a listener who might be saying, well, I don't want to give extra money away to a financial advisor. I'm going to have a friend or a family member, or a sibling, or one of my children. You know, if somebody has adult children, handle my money, what do you want to say to that listener?

Jennifer Lee  
I think that it is appropriate sometimes to have a do it yourself mentality. I also think in my own personal experience, you know, the very first time I gave up doing my tax returns again to an accountant. She said, Well, let me have the last three years. And she went back the last three years and say, and got me a refund of five grand. So here I'm doing them wrong. So I think that there's value in at least if you don't want to turn the money management over to an advisor, then meet an advisor that you can pay for advice, right? You want to do it yourself, that's fine, but hey, Jennifer, I want to do a financial plan with you. Want you to tell me what to do, and I'm going to call you if I need it, and I'll be hourly, and that's it, right? That's okay, but at least you have a game plan. The other question, if you don't have resources of a level where you say it really doesn't justify, you know, paying an advisor, then that's kind of why I wrote the book. It's accessible to anybody. It's 25 bucks. It walks you through all the things I'm going to walk you through. So my clients want me to hold their hand through the process and all of that. I mean, it's just a matter of what's most comfortable for the person. 

Laurie James  
Yeah, with how they want to go about it, definitely now. And I love that. That's a great reminder, too, because when I was going through my divorce, I did hire a financial advisor that specialized in divorce, and she really helped me figure out the numbers. Because, you know, was complicated. My ex was already retired, and we had a variety of savings accounts and 401Ks and qualified plans and all of that. And even though I understood, she had the experience and understood at a much deeper level than I did. So she helped me. Like, well, you know, if we take money out of the 401K and, you know, it's like, how do you want to break up all the different pies to make a half of the pie? So there's lots of ways of splitting that up, especially if anybody who's listening might have property, because we don't get to mid oftentimes, when we get to midlife, we have enough assets that it matters and it and as women, I think it's important for us to stand up for what is fairly ours.

Jennifer Lee  
I could not agree with you more. You know, a lot of times I'll meet people off of a podcast like this, because I like to say, maybe we hit on a subject that piqued your interest, but we didn't answer your specific question. So offer to have a 15 minute, no cost, no obligation, conversation, so we can answer it, and you can move on with your life and carry on with that. So I'll get people who end up coming to me and they say, Okay, I have all this stuff, and I want you to be my advisor. I want you to do these assets. Pause. Okay, right now you're in the middle of a crisis, right? We need to triage. We need to make sure that you are set up for success. So right now, we need to figure out the assets. Who's going to keep what? Whether you need a quadro to and your attorney is going to draft that. We need to get the documents. You need to your attorney, and we need to work with your coach to help you facilitate through these things, because it's overwhelming. So I'll do a short term flat fee. I call it financial triage, and it's really just okay, let me do a spread sheet. Let me take all your assets. Let's talk about what you have. If you kept this and he kept that, what's it going to look like? So I think that can be very helpful. 

Laurie James  
And just for the listeners who may not know, can you explain what a quadro is? 

Jennifer Lee  
Sure, sure a quadro is Q, D, R, O, and it's qualified domestic relations order. So what that is, it's a document that you would give to your financial person, and you would say, Hey, I've got this quadro and my husband and I have, he has an IRA. I have a Roth IRA. We have a personal account. We need these to be evenly split. And you give us that document, and we open new accounts, and we can split those assets without that document, we can't do anything because they're IRA assets, or they're your account, not his. So that's a very important step. I've had clients go through a messy divorce and then forget to get the Quadro, and then not takes another six months. So that's also something we help you think about and talk to your attorney about. 

Laurie James  
Beautiful. Yeah, because oftentimes when you go through a divorce, it's the first time you've gone through a divorce, or maybe even if it's a second marriage, and you were married very young, you didn't have any assets back then. So you know, when you get to midlife, you do have some assets, and so it's important to, in my opinion, not be the ostrich and stick your head in the sand and really understand the process, because that's really the only way you're going to walk away knowing that you have been treated fairly you could not trust your ex or your soon to be ex to take care of you, because divorce doesn't bring out the best in any of us.

Jennifer Lee  
No, unfortunately, it doesn't, and having an advocate in your financial person is also a way to, we hope, encourage you just to toe the line, to stay, not to leave money on the table. A lot of times, you know, I meet with people and they say, Oh, my God, I'm just so tired. I just want it over. I said, Well, that's all great, that's all well and good, but we're talking about leaving $800,000 on the table. I'd rather you get it and give it away if you want, but we're doing why are we giving the student? Because he's annoying you. Let's just involve the attorney, and let's get the asset right? 

Laurie James  
Or you have the person. And I've heard this before, is I just don't care. I don't care if I just have to live an apartment for the rest of my life. Okay? Well, in five years, or three years, six months, whatever it is you're gonna care. You may not care in the moment, but you're gonna care later. 

Jennifer Lee  
It's true. I mean, Laurie, do you get people to say, Where were you when I was going through my divorce? Right? Like I needed you. I needed you to hold my hand. I needed you to put me back together for a minute so I could do this stuff, right? I knew an advocate. 

Laurie James  
Yeah, absolutely. And I do, I help women from a coaching standpoint, not from a financial standpoint, but a coaching standpoint. And so I team up with the attorney, I team up with the financial person, and help people through that process. And somatically, when we do get stuck, or when we want to fight and that's all we want to do, or we want to run away, which is also another threat response. You know, I help to pull them out of that and back in the present moment. And, you know, work through those emotions. So that way we can get out of that threat response. And so that way you can make sound decisions, because research shows that when we are stressed or we are in a threat response, our prefrontal cortex is off, which I already mentioned earlier, and we are not able to make good decisions for ourselves. So that's why it's so so important to have a team and get the support, it feels like a lot of money, and it's scary, but a lot of times, if you invest in yourself now, you'll be saving so much money later on, because you'll have had the right team together to help you through the process.

Jennifer Lee  
I think, you know, when we're speaking specifically of divorce, I think that I come from an accounting background, so I like to be as efficient as possible. I don't like to waste money, right? I enjoy money, but I don't like to waste it. So when I think about all the expenses you have going through a divorce, your your attorney, potentially your financial person, and potentially your coach. Well, the cost of those services kind of goes in that arena. Attorney's most expensive, then maybe the financial person than the coach. But the truth of the matter is, you need most of your time with the coach, a little bit with the financial person, and then the least amount with your attorney, if you're doing it efficiently. Most people-

Laurie James  
Use their attorney or their financial person as their coach or therapist. 

Jennifer Lee  
As their therapist at $600 an hour, it's crazy so and your attorney does not have the skill set nor the patients, most of them to navigate that world that's not their expertise. Like you know you want to be able to talk to somebody like Laurie and say, Well, I really don't understand this, and come up with questions that you're specifically going to ask when you go to that attorney's office. And you want to be able to talk to somebody like me who says, ask your attorney what given your 30 year marriage, this where you live, all these things your kids, what you can expect if you go all the way through the court system. So I can have a rational conversation with you about your money and what life's gonna look like. It's just about being efficient.

Laurie James  
Yeah, yeah. So we did touch on this a little bit earlier, but I want to maybe dive in a little bit deeper. One of the chapters in your book, you ask the question, are you an ostrich? So why do people typically stick their head in the sand? About finances? Is there one or two advice we can give to help people get out of sticking their head in their sand? Or is there anything we can do?

Jennifer Lee  
Well, I think it's almost like anything that's new to you. It can be scary, it can be overwhelming, it can be too big, or feel that way. It's like eating an elephant. You have to do one bite at a time, right? Not the one I heard elephant. I love elephant, but you can't do it all. Just expect overnight, you're going to understand all these things. So I think understanding what you want your money to do for you is probably the biggest motivator. If you say, Well, I want to be financially independent. I want to feel like comfortable that when you know my mortgage comes around, my car pay, I'm not going to freak out because I know I have the money. Or I want to feel comfortable that I'm going to make it to retirement and what that's going to look like, or I want to feel comfortable I can take my kid on a trip, because that connection time is so important to me. 

Laurie James  
Yeah, just scheduled that with one of my kids. 

Jennifer Lee  
Good for you. Good for you. When you know your why, I can help you kind of leverage your money to get to your why, and kind of work backwards. So I think women are, historically, mostly, although not exclusively. I've got a couple divorce cases right now, and the woman is the one who's running the whole thing and has the money, and that's bossy, and I love it, but most times, historically, the woman is in the role of the non money party, and that's not to say she's not intelligent. It's not to say she can't absorb this content. It's just they divided and conquered tasks in their relationship, and that wasn't ours. So if you go 20 years in a marriage without handling the finances, you're going to feel like you're behind. And it's not but you have to catch up 20 years. You just have to have the right team and the proper support to get you what you need to get confident. 

Laurie James  
Right. And that, I think, is key to get confident, because I can remember being in a place where I didn't feel confident through the process, and there were other things going on in my marriage. There were trust issues, and there was superiority, ego. My ex had a very big ego, and I'm being kind right now, and I acquiesced, which didn't do me any favors in the long run, because that kind of picked away at my confidence, my self worth during that process. So I had to pull myself out, and one of the things that was empowering for me was to educate myself on my finances, on my future, and really check in with myself. What is it? What is my why? What do I want? Right? Because we have a choice at this point. Right? We can either let our experiences, there's I can't remember the woman who quoted this. We can let over our experience define us, destroy us, or make us stronger, right? So what do we want to do? Let's make this experience make us stronger, develop that strength, develop that confidence, so that way we can then take the next step and create this beautiful life for ourselves. Isn't that why we're all here is to enjoy the fruits of our labor. And for any woman who's listening, who may have not worked, quote, unquote, outside the home, you are worthy. I mean, I had no time off. 

Jennifer Lee  
You don't, and there's a lot that goes into that role. When supporting your family and educating your kids and supporting your spouse as they're growing their career, all of those. I mean, come on, if we got a paycheck for all that you do, I think there was a YouTube around around Mother's Day or Thanksgiving. I've got to find it, because it's very funny. And this guy, he interviews all these people, he puts it out there like it's an interview. And he says, Well, you know, you're going to have to work like 24/7 and there's going to need to be feeding and food in the refrigerator. And, and he starts talking about all the things that a mom does, and he he's describing him, and the woman, or the man is like, well, that's us. We're going to need to be on call 24/7 and if you need vacation, you have to take them with you. And and they're all like, what is going on? And finally said, you know, that's the job of a mom. And they're like, oh, you know, it's everything. 

Laurie James  
It is, and I wouldn't have traded it for the world. I love being home. I love taking care of my kids. I wanted to stay home and raise them. But I think also it's important for us to not lose ourself along the way, and that's what I find so often, is women that do stay home, we kind of lose ourselves through the process a little bit, and it's our job to make sure that we don't do that right. Or if you have build yourself back up, work with somebody so that way you can develop your self worth, develop your confidence and empower yourself. 

Jennifer Lee  
For sure, you put that in hell on the head. I mean, it definitely. Moms sometimes will lose themselves. But even in a relationship, that's not the primary piece and the core of your life, you know your relationship and ideal world is the core of everything, right? And then you have these little pieces off of it. But if you don't have that core relationship, you definitely lose yourself there too. So getting support is I advocate for that. 

Laurie James  
So can we talk a little bit more about legacy I love in your book, in the subtitle, it says, live with purpose, then leave a legacy. Can you just share what you mean by legacy and why we should be thinking about that in midlife or beyond? 

Jennifer Lee  
You know, I think we can think about it, really it at any time. The Book, the title Squeeze The Juice, is about getting the juice out of a relationship, out of a conversation, out of this podcast, out of an experience. And for me, I call myself a super aunt. I'm aunt Jen, and I've got nine nieces and nephews. Just recently, my 22 year old niece was au pairing in Milan, and she said, aunt Jen, I've got 10 days would you want to travel with it done, like, where are we going, you know, and so for me, my legacy, it's not just the money you leave behind, but it's those experiences, those connections, those we had an amazing time traveling together, one on one and driving around Chianti, those kind of things. That's a legacy, that's a memory, that's imparting your values, that's communicating those things to the people who are most important to you. But from a financial perspective, when I think about legacy, I think about taking care of your spouse, if you're married, or your partner, handling your business and transitioning that. I think about your children, and what that looks like in terms of how those assets get dispersed, and making sure that if there's money going to people, that it's clear as to why, particularly if it's different amounts to different people. So if you have four kids that you end up giving three of them money and one of them doesn't get money, you better write a nice love letter telling them why they didn't get any money, because otherwise it's going to create it. You know, World War Three. 

Laurie James  
Recently experienced that because my oldest brother has addiction issues and there wasn't a lot left for him. So, you know, I became the the evil sister. I was like, I'm just doing what my parents will and trust said, Not that I care, because that relationship is, you know.

Jennifer Lee  
But you do, you're a good person. So of course, you have empathy for the situation, and you feel bad that that's happened. But what are you going to do? Like you're trying to make sure that the wishes of your parents are, yeah, and then he, I mean, what's he going to do with it? It's going to be dangerous for him. And there are ways to structure legacy. So if you were a bunch of 20 year olds and one of them had a drug problem, you could set up a trust that the first three could have their money outright. And it could be structured however you needed to be for a normally capable financial person, and the other one could be structured so that they only get so much money every month, right? Okay, they need help with their apartment. Fine. Maybe it goes directly to the landlord. There's all kinds of things you can do to structure, things to protect your family and make happen what you'd like to have happen. And then, if you have massive amounts of wealth, then there are things like establishing a donor advice fund or a foundation. I like the idea, and I talk a little bit about this in the book of having a family meeting. So if you have that kind of wealth, right, that's a big problem to have. You gotta figure out how to give away your money. And part of your legacy is your values, your perspective on community involvement, your perspective on giving back. So why not take your grandchildren and your children and have a meeting with them and say, Okay, I want you to research you know, what kind of charitable organization we should give money to, and then tell us why, right? I mean, I got chills just saying that. 

Laurie James  
And I love that you said that too, because a relative of my ex husband's did leave behind a foundation, and my ex was very kind of rigid about what we were going to do with that money. And I said, What is the legacy Do you want to just control this and not share it with our four children or our three nephews, what about if we did exactly what you were talking about, and bring them in and let them choose, give them a small amount of money, whatever you know, $1,000 or whatever it is, and let them choose what organization is meaningful for them, and to have them research it, and we did that for two years before I ended up leaving my marriage, and that was so meaningful to me. I loved it, and the kids got so into it, and it was family time. And then we also did family activities together. That's one of the things I really miss, not so much like the giving of the money, but just that family experience and bringing us all together. Now, I do it a little bit differently with my girls, but yeah, I mean that to me, is more impactful than anything. Is having that family time and doing something meaningful, especially if you do have extra money, and for those who don't like that, doesn't mean that you're a bad person or there's anything wrong with you. But if you do, let's make a difference in the world, right? And what's meaningful for you.

Jennifer Lee  
You're also teaching your kids values. You're teaching them to give back. And, I mean, that's, you know, I often like to ask people, you know, what would you do if you want when there's huge lottery things, and the people are all talking about, well, what would you do if you want it, right? Like, what would you do if you have $100 million or $300 million and I go, Okay, well, half of that is the annuity value, and half of that was tax, but okay, now you get $75 million what would you do with that? And you know, I'll buy this person a house, I'll buy that person a house, I'll buy a boat. Do these things. I say, Okay, look. And they say, What would you do? I said, Well, I would spend the rest of my life giving that money away, right? So you have $75 million it kicks off money, and then even give that away every year, great like, what a fantastic thing to be able to do, right? So anyway, if you win the lottery, call me, we'll help you give it away.

Laurie James  
We can have a lot of fun with it. So as we come to a close, is there any confession or last comments, thoughts or takeaways that you want to share with our listeners that maybe we haven't discussed.

Jennifer Lee  
The only thing that I would say is, and hopefully we can put it in the in the notes, is, if we've left you thinking of something that is a financial question and you didn't get it answered on this call, certainly be happy to respond to an email or have a 15 minute no cost, no obligation, just answer your question. So I have a calendar link, and we can maybe add that. 

Laurie James  
Send that over, and I'm happy to put that in the show notes. Also make sure your website is in the show notes as well, and a link to your book. So thank you so much for your time. Jennifer, this was such an enriching conversation, and I know our listeners will take a nugget or two away from our conversation today.

Jennifer Lee  
Hope so it was fun. Laurie, thank you.

Laurie James  
Thank you for listening to this episode of Confessions of a Freebird. I'm grateful to be in your ears and hearts. If you're interested in becoming a free bird, I'd love to support you. Please check out my website at laurieejames.com to learn how we can work together, or to sign up for my newsletter so you can receive tips on how to date and relationship differently and ultimately find more freedom and joy in your life. If you found this podcast helpful, please follow or subscribe, rate and review and share it with friends so they can find more freedom in their second or third act. Also until next time.